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Author: singh
Date: 09-15-05 07:43
This is an off shoot of the topic on charan dhoor where ishnaan was being discussed
thought we should discuss about sarovars in separate thread
why do we have sarovars?
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Author: charanjeev singh
Date: 09-15-05 16:56
In earlier times, and even today, there was a barrier in peoples mind that we are better than others, and as well as we are lower than others. To remove this barrier, and to show all that all humans, no matter of any worldly things such as castes, etc. that there is no difference in anybody. To remove these dualities from the mind, the Guru made two institutions. One is langar, and the other was the sarovar. In the sarovar, all would bathe, to remove dualities in the mind, as well as pangat. In older days, with the two larger religions being islam and hinduism. In islam women and men are considered different. In hinduism castes would not sit together. The Guru took out both dualities from both religions. All people, no matter of sex, caste, etc. would sit together and have total equalities on all basis. The sarovar also serves this purpose. The most beautiful aspect is that when the Guru made something, there are a lot of blessings in them.
bhul chuk mauf
waheguruujikakhalsa waheguruujikifateh
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Author: Jarnail Singh Gyani "Arshi"
Date: 09-15-05 23:57
YES. 100% SPOT ON veer Charanjeev Singh Ji.
Secondly our Guur sahibaans were Great HUMANITARIANS as well...they set up MORE towns than the Mughal emperors...they got Education going, they got all this and more for the people.. IN those times WATER was much more SCARCE than is now ( I wonder !!)..and Rich People Owned the KHOOS... the Wells and sources of water were controlled...Guru Ji set up KHOOS..really large ones like the oen at Chherta Sahib, Baoilis like the one at Goindwaal..and SAROVARS for the Common People..with NO DISTINCTION as to Hindu water or Muslim water..Brahmin water or Sudar Water....it was GURU JI'S SAROVAR FOR ALL.
I distinctly remember when I left India in as a small boy, the RAILWAY STATIONS had HINDU PAANI and MUSLIM PANNEE written over PIPES. Hindus drank waterf rom Hindu pipes and Muslims drank from Muslim Pipes ( Although what everyone neglected to look at was that UNDERGROUND BOTH PIPES came from the same source !!)...
The SAROVARS were constructed to FIGHT this type of Religious Prejudice..
Just as NO RELIGIOUS MERIT is Gained from sitting in pangat and eating Guru ka Langgar..no such washing of paaps occurs by washing in a SAROVAR. BOTH are instruments of HUMILITY....EQUALITY and BRARBRTA..Brother Hood of Humanity..Sarab Sanhjee Guru Matt
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Author: singh
Date: 09-16-05 06:48
How about curing diseases??? A lot of people benefit at Bangla Sahib me included....I needed an operation but disease disappeared after ishnaan at Bangla Sahib.
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Author: Jarnail Singh Gyani "Arshi"
Date: 09-16-05 11:22
Author: singh
Date: 09-16-05 06:48
How about curing diseases??? A lot of people benefit at Bangla Sahib me included....I needed an operation but disease disappeared after ishnaan at Bangla Sahib.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thats OK by me. I have a lot of Malay neighbours who returned from the Hajj in mecca with "holy water" from a well there....and many of them were "cured" as well...thats OK by me as well.
By the way just do a Google search on PLACEBO CURES and TESTING carried out by Pharmeceuticals on NEW DRUGS.... 50% of Genuinely SICK patients given just SUGAR PILLS ( disguised as DRUG) also GET CURED...and 50% of genuinely sick patients get cured by the REAL DRUG.
These are REAL TESTS carried out by SCIENTISTS in CONTROL environments and CERTIFIED by the GOVT FDA etc....and not a Random statement like you made about Bangla sahib Ishnaan. ( i mean no contol environment etc just your own observation)
I have met a few Hindus who swear a bath in the Ganga cured their cancer.
So bottomline is FAITH. Some have FAITH in the DRUGS..others have faith in Mecca water..others in bangla sahib sarovar..others in Ganga river water..to each his own. Some get cured by Christian Evangelists placing their hands on their heads and blessing them....others get blesed from Sants and babas..many go to Deras and Samadhs of Pirs..where they get twaeets and blessed ashes....
For Me personally I have FAITH only in GURBANI. PERIOD.
Bhul Chuk maaf.
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Author: Singh
Date: 09-16-05 11:28
Guru Sahib created sarovars for more than just washing. This has been discussed earlier, but why are Bibeksar and Ramsar just across the street? Why are there 5 sarovars in Amritsar? I don't know and I don't think anyone can say for sure except Guru Sahib.
What about the story of Bibi Rajani and the Pingla?
The water around sarovars is definitely different than just regular water. It has the vibration of constant gurbani flowing into it. How is amrit made? It is the vibration of sarbloh and the vibration of gurbani that makes amrit. Same way the vibration of gurbani does give an effect to sarovar water.
To deny the power of sarovars (not as places where sins are washed but otherwise as different than just regular water) is atheism in my opinion.
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Author: Kulbir Singh
Date: 09-16-05 12:03
Very well said Singh jeeo. It is a known fact that doing ishnaan in the sarovars blessed and made by Guru Sahib themselves, eradicates diseases and proves beyond doubt that sins too are washed away. But who’s sins are washed away? Ones who follow other hukams of Guru Sahib as well. If one is a Gursikh and gets diseased, doing ishnaan in Amritsar Sahib sarovar and other amrit sarovars does expedite the eradication of diseases. There is no doubt about it. Go try yourself.
So great is the significance of doing ishnaan in Amritsar Sahib that it has been included in the ardaas – Siri Amritsar Sahib jee de ishnaan. Some say "Darshan Ishnaan" but the real wording is “ishnaan” only. When you do ishnaan, darshan happens automatically. But Darshan alone on the other hand does not ensure ishnaan too. Many come back from Siri Harmandar Sahib without doing ishnaan in Amritsar Sahib.
It is true that in Gurbani, many places the word sar or sarovar means sangat of Gursikhs but we should not forget that Guru Sahib himself named the Sarovar at Harmandar Sahib – Amritsar – i..e Sarovar of Amrit.
Ones who have done ishnaan in the 5 Sarovars of Siri Amritsar Sahib (city), Taran Tarn Sahib, Dukh Bhanjanee Sahib Patiala, Bauli Sahib – Govindwal Sahib, Bauli Sahib – Ambala, Bangla Sahib Delhi know the greatness of these sarovars.
Gurbani pankitis condemning going to Teerath do not apply on Teeraths that Guru Sahib created. There was a time when doing teeraths of Hindus had some power but in Kalyug the power of 68 Teeraths of Hindus is not enough to cleanse one’s sins. however, there must be some spiritual reward of doing 68 teeraths and that’s why Guru Sahib has written that “Athsath Teerath Sagal Punn – Jee Daiya Parvaan” i.e. good deed or good Karma earned by doing ishnaan at 68 teeraths and having mercy on creatures and other such things all gets covered if we do what is told in the first two pankitis of this shabad i.e. do sangat of Gursikh Saadhoos and Japp Naam. What this proves is that by doing sangat of Gursikhs saadhoos and japping naam with them, one easily gets the rewards of 68 teeraths.
Gurmat Teeraths i.e. having darshan of those places that our Guru Sahibaan personally visited is part of the Gurmat Bibek. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee writes that as the Jyot Vigaasi Singhs do parkarma of Gur-Asthaans i.e. historical Gurdwaras, the jyog vigaas inside them increases manifold.
If Gurmukhi Teeraths had no importance, why did countless Singhs give their lives for the sanctity of Harmandar Sahib? Why did countless sacrifice their lives just to do ishnaan of Siri Amritsar Sahib?
Try doing ishnaan at Darbar Sahib, with full faith and then see the results. Siri Guru Raamdaas jee Maharaaj’s zaahar kala is prevalent in Harmandar Sahib.
Kulbir Singh
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Author: ns
Date: 09-16-05 14:18
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalasa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh
Abosolutley agree, I must stress in my younger days I didn't honestly have much fatih in Sikhe but I can never forget this day in my life which was a turning point. I was in Tarn Tarn area and we were also going to go to Amritsar. As we entered Tarn Tarn complex my Grandfather prompted me to do ishnaan here, I just replied forget it here let's do it Amritsar instead. As we approached the steps to the sarvor just to wash face and hands I slipped and fell right in the sarovar. My grandfather and rest of the family laughed and my grandfather reminded me that I should've replied yes to do ishnaan here but Guru Ji Knows better and ensured you did ishnaan with all your clothes on..
I never made that mistake again , and pray not to do so...
I totally 100% agree with Kulbir Singh Jee's beautiful post that kala of Guru Sahiban is prevlaent at all Gurmat Teeraths.
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Author: Jarnail Singh Gyani "Arshi"
Date: 09-16-05 17:35
isrI rwgu mhlw 3 ] ijnI purKI sqguru n syivE sy duKIey jug cwir ] Gir hodw purKu n pCwixAw AiBmwin muTy AhMkwir ] sqgurU ikAw iPtikAw, mMig Qky sMswir ] scw sbdu n syivE siB kwj svwrxhwru ]1] mn myry, sdw hir vyKu hdUir ] jnm mrn duKu prhrY sbid rihAw BrpUir ]1]rhwau] scu slwhin sy sic, scw nwmu ADwru ] scI kwr kmwvxI scy nwil ipAwru ] scw swhu vrqdw koie n mytxhwru ] mnmuK mhlu n pwienI kUiV muTy kUiVAwr ]2] haumY krqw jgu muAw gur ibnu Gor AMDwru ] mwieAw moih ivswirAw suKdwqw dwqwru ] sqguru syvih, qw aubrih, scu rKih aurDwru ] ikrpw qy hir pweIAY sic sbid vIcwir ]3] siqguru syiv mnu inrmlw haumY qij ivkwru ] Awpu Coif jIvq mrY gur kY sbid vIcwr ] DMDw Dwvq rih gey lwgw swic ipAwru ] sic rqy muK aujly iqqu swcY drbwir ]4] sqguru purKu n mMinE sbid n lgo ipAwru ] iesnwnu dwnu jyqw krih dUjY Bwie KuAwru ] hir jIau AwpxI ikRpw kry qw lwgY nwmu ipAwru ] nwnk nwmu smwil qU gur kY hyiq Apwir ]5]20]53] {pMnw 34}
isrI rwgu mhlw 3 ] jig haumY mYlu duKu pwieAw mlu lwgI dUjY Bwie ] mlu haumY DoqI ikvY n auqrY, jy sau qIrQ nwie ] bhu ibiD krm kmwvdy dUxI mlu lwgI Awie ] piVAY mYlu n auqrY pUChu igAwnIAw jwie ]1] mn myry, gur srix AwvY qw inrmlu hoie ] mnmuK hir hir kir Qky mYlu n skI Doie ]1]rhwau] min mYlY Bgiq n hoveI nwmu n pwieAw jwie ] mnmuK mYly, mYly muey, jwsin piq gvwie ] gur prswdI min vsY mlu haumY jwie smwie ] ijau AMDyrY dIpku bwlIAY iqau gur igAwin AigAwnu qjwie ]2] hm kIAw hm krhgy hm mUrK gwvwr ] krxY vwlw ivsirAw dUjY Bwie ipAwru ] mwieAw jyvfu duKu nhI siB Biv Qky sMswru ] gurmqI suKu pweIAY scu nwmu aurDwir ]3] ijs no myly so imlY hau iqsu bilhwrY jwau ] ey mn, BgqI riqAw scu bwxI inj Qwau ] min rqy ijhvw rqI hir gux scy gwau ] nwnk nwmu n vIsrY scy mwih smwau ]4]33]31]64] {pMnw 39}
I always beleived that GURBANI is not DUAL. When it says TEERATH..it means ALL TEERATHS. By the time this Shabad was written Baoli Sahib at goindwaal had been constructed....BUT Guur Amardass ji has not written a single shabad to say that ISHNAAN at baoli sahib will wash off ones sins. Neither did Guru Ramdass Ji or Guru Arjun ji. I request Vee Kulbir Singh ji to remove my doubts as to WHY Guru ji would say MY TEERATH can remove Sins while the HINDU teerath cannot. ( and where it has been said)
Secondly I think a GURBANI Panktee declares that BLACK CROWS CANNOT TURN INTO WHITE SWANS. So the Pingla and rajni story on this account cannot stand. How can a crow become a different species ? and where are the descendatnts of these white crows ?
IF veers can remove these two doubts from my mind then i can be at peace on this account. This is very important as I may be making a trip to Punjab soon.
On the Historical aspects of darbar sahib and other Historical gurdawras.. I am aware...in fact I think it was Prof pooran Singh ji who wrote such a moving poem on Darbar Sahib.... Off hand I cant remeber the exact lines but in genral the meaning was...OH MY SON..when YOU STEP into the PARKIRMA of darbar sahib...PLace EACH FOOT carefully and reverently..BECAUSE each of those Marble Slabs is NOT a SLAB..BUT the HEAD of a SHAHEED SINGH/SINGHANNEE...IT brings tears to my eyes whenever i remember this moving poem....and I will make sure I TREAD REALLY SOFTLY on those Parkarma Slabs....
Thanks in advance..
Jarnail Singh
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Author: charanjeev singh
Date: 09-16-05 17:44
I also have always believed that the sarovars of that Guru Sahib have made with their own hands are beyond description and carry such blessings that is beyond description. When the Guru does something, there are many many many blessings in them. The sarovar eradicating dualities of the mind such as caste, sex, etc. are just one aspect. When the Guru makes something, there is so much blessings in them that cannot be described. Taking ishnaan in the Sarovars of Guru Sahib are the most blessful. There is a reason why Guru Sahib called this Sarovar Amritsar; it truly truly is. However, we must not only bathe in the Sarovar, and not do aatmic ishnaan; through baani, saadhsangat, simran, seva, etc. This is most important. But taking ishnaan in the Sarovars of Guru Sahib are the most blessful, they truly do enlighten the inner soul through 'magic'; many would disagree but i guess this is where shardaa and gyan would play a role together. Personally, i love taking ishnaan in the sarovars of Guru Sahib. Gives such a feeling that no bath, waterfall, or any teerath can give. Importantly, if someone goes to india, please do take ishnaan in Kaulsar. Guru Sahib gave boon that until a person takes ishnaan in Kaulsar, Amritsar ishnaan is not parvaan. So please do this. Also, when we take ishnaan in these most pavitar Sarovars, take back with you the entire history, prem, and blessings of Guru Sahib.
bhul chuk mauf
waheguruujikakhalsa waheguruujikifateh
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Author: singh
Date: 09-17-05 03:48
wgkk wgkf
the second singh said it all
by saying the sarovar Ishnaan is placebo it TOTALY wrong.
gyani ji to remind you here Kala Afgana is also playin on this. taking away the sharda......he redicules amrit by sayin that what use is that water which cannot put life back into a dead mouse what to say of having some effect on the humans. he goes further and says that in 1984 so many dead were floating in the sacred sarovar what happened to the powers of the sarovar then. I hope you donot follow the same line and strengthen the modern day 'tarksheel' guys who are bent on destroying whatever faith is left in sikh sangat
and if you say that you only believe in gurbani, gurbani talks about spiritual amrit and not physical amrit. we take physical amrit which helps us reaching spiritual amrit. going by your argument that means just believe in gurbani and there is not any need of physical amrit. but that is not the case
veer kulbir singh ji the guru ghar is bakshan har for every one whether he is a sikh or not. dara shikho was cured by 'dava khana' in guru sahibs times so the cures are available for every one whether through cosmic means or physical means for eg the hindoos in delhi cut their hair but the ones which go to bangla sahib derive their benefits whether they opbey hukam of keeping kesh or not
undoubtedly if they obey hukam they will gain lot more but its their karm at end of the day as to how much benefit they get
so I will just say here that the Sarovars were bulit by Guru SAhib so that the Sikhs had teeraths near their homes and did not have to follow the hindoo teeraths
more over the sarovars are blessed they are blessed by the power of the akalpurakh
as some veer stated above the sarovars have gurbani being read/sang around them all the time and the effect goes into the water. if anyone does not agree with this then please explain why gurbani is read while preparing amrit????
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Author: Kulbir Singh
Date: 09-17-05 04:39
Gurmukh Pyaray Arshee Gyani jeeo,
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sqguru purKu n mMinE sbid n lgo ipAwru ] iesnwnu dwnu jyqw krih dUjY Bwie KuAwru ] hir jIau AwpxI ikRpw kry qw lwgY nwmu ipAwru ] nwnk nwmu smwil qU gur kY hyiq Apwir ]5]20]53] {pMnw 34}
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siqgurU scy pwqSwh ny ies Sbd ivc ieh qW ikqy nhIN ikhw ik qIrQW qy ieSnwn krn dw koeI mhwqm nhIN hY[ myrI smJ Anuswr, gurU swihb ieh kih rhy hn ik jykr scy gurU nUM koeI nw mMny Aqy Sbd nwl ipAwr nw pwvy, aus dw hor sB kuJ kIqw hoieAw AjweIN hI jWdw hY Aqy auh KuAwr huMdw hY[
In my humble opinion, Guru Sahib in this pankiti is not saying that there is no good reward of doing ishnaan or giving daan (charity). We all know that giving money in charity does bring good Karma and same way doing ishnaan too is good karma. The only thing is that without serving the true Guru and without developing love for the true Shabad, all good deeds go waste. How? Because these good deeds don’t free us from birth, death and rebirth.
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isrI rwgu mhlw 3 ] jig haumY mYlu duKu pwieAw mlu lwgI dUjY Bwie ] mlu haumY DoqI ikvY n auqrY, jy sau qIrQ nwie ] bhu ibiD krm kmwvdy dUxI mlu lwgI Awie ] piVAY mYlu n auqrY pUChu igAwnIAw jwie ]1]
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ies Sbd ivc vI hzUr ny ieho hI ikhw hY ik qIrQW qy jw ky haumY dI mYl nhIN auqrdI[ ieh gl dw qW koeI JgVw hI nhIN[ AwpW nUM sB nUM pqw hI hY ik haumY dI mYl qW Sbd ny hI lwhuxI hY[ hor iksy ibiD vI ieh nhIN auqr skdI[ ies Sbd ivcoN vI ieh swbq nhIN huMdw ik qIrQW qy jwx dw koeI vI lwB nhIN huMdw[ gurmiq qIrQW dI qW g`l hI kI krnI hY, Awnmq qIrQW qy jwx dw vI AwnmqIAW nUM koeI nw koeI lwB qW huMdw hI hovygw pr ijs qrW gurU swihb ny PurmwieAw hY, AwnmqIey QoVy bhuqy cMgy krm qW kmw lYNdy hn pr auhnW dI haumY dI mYl sgoN vD jWdI hY ikauik auh qIrQW qy jwx dw mwx kr bYTdy hn[
From the above quoted shabad, only this is proven that by going to teeraths, one’s haume dirt does not wash away. I have never contested this and have never claimed that haume dirt goes away by doing ishnaan at Gurmat Teeraths. All I am saying is that one’s diseases and many sins do get washed away by doing ishnaan in Gurmat Teeraths.
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I always beleived that GURBANI is not DUAL. When it says TEERATH..it means ALL TEERATHS.
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By the same token, one could argue that when Gurbani condemns outer appearance, then that should include Khalsa appearance as well, including 5Ks and Dastaara. Gurmat Teeraths are beneficial because Guru Sahib’s sacred body has touched them and Guru Sahib’s sacred gaze has seen them. Because of this, the teeraths are pure.
Even Hindu teeraths are beneficial to some extent but Sikhs are not supposed to go there because we have a Naam, Gurbani, Sangat and Gurmat Teeraths. I beg for your attention to the following two pankitis:
gMgw jmunw godwvrI srsuqI qy krih audmu DUir swDU kI qweI ]
ga(n)gaa jamunaa godhaavaree sarasuthee thae karehi oudham dhhoor saadhhoo kee thaaee ||
The Ganges, the Jamunaa, the Godaavari and the Saraswati - these rivers strive for the dust of the feet of the Holy.
iklivK mYlu Bry pry hmrY ivic hmrI mYlu swDU kI DUir gvweI ]1]
kilavikh mail bharae parae hamarai vich hamaree mail saadhhoo kee dhhoor gavaaee ||1||
Overflowing with their filthy sins, the mortals take cleansing baths in them; the rivers' pollution is washed away by the dust of the feet of the Holy. ||1||
The first pankiti tells us that by nature all teeraths long for Charan Kamal of Guru Sahib. Why? Because the teeraths get filled with immense dirt after washing sins of people and they can only be cleansed if they get Guru Sahib’s dust. Does this not prove that some sins are cleansed by doing teeraths at 68 Teeraths too.
Reading Gurbani, my understanding is that the 68 Teeraths of Hindus don’t cleanse the inner dirt of Haume but there is still some punn or good Karma of doing these teeraths. If there was no punn of doing ishnaan at these teeraths, many pankitis of Gurbani that say that by Japping Naam one gets reward of 68 teeraths or that by doing sangat of Guru Sahib one gets reward of 68 teeraths, would become meaningless. If there was no reward of doing 68 teeraths, then why would Guru Sahib include these as one of the rewards of Japping Naam and doing sangat of Gursikhs?
The reality is that everything we do has some good or bad karma associated with it. But the Karma associated with Gurbani and Naam is so great that it is out of this world. By doing Naam Abhyaas, one forsakes the need of doing other good karma and all good karma are included in Naam itself. There is no greater Karma that japping Naam.
Looking forward to discussing this with you.
Daas,
Kulbir Singh
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Author: charanjeev singh
Date: 09-17-05 06:30
Another reason for the sarovar could be as such. In those times we know that running water in homes were not available. And even today many people in india might not have running water at home, or even at all. Very often there was no access to clean water even. Guru Sahib was truly Daya in making a Sarovar for the beloved Sangat. And in the Rehat of a Gursikh, a Gursikh first takes body ishnaan to make his body fresh and nirmal, and then takes Aatmic Ishaan, through Guru Sahibs' Baani.
The sangat would come to Gurdwara Sahib from far and wide, sometimes after days and days of travel (btw not by car). And here by Guru Sahibs Grace the sangat would get to take ishnaan of the body and get fresh, and then come meet the Guru and be blessed again. Ishnaan is part of a Sikhs life, its Gurus' Marayada.
sorat(h) mehalaa 5 ||
kar eisanaan simar prabh apanaa man than bheae arogaa ||
kott bighan laathhae prabh saranaa pragattae bhalae sa(n)jogaa ||1||
prabh baanee sabadh subhaakhiaa ||
gaavahu sunahu parrahu nith bhaaee gur poorai thoo raakhiaa || rehaao ||
saachaa saahib amith vaddaaee bhagath vashhal dhaeiaalaa ||
sa(n)thaa kee paij rakhadhaa aaeiaa aadh biradh prathipaalaa ||2||
har a(n)mrith naam bhojan nith bhu(n)chahu sarab vaelaa mukh paavahu ||
jaraa maraa thaap sabh naat(h)aa gun gobi(n)dh nith gaavahu ||3||
sunee aradhaas suaamee maerai sarab kalaa ban aaee ||
pragatt bhee sagalae jug a(n)thar gur naanak kee vaddiaaee ||4||11||
ang 611
Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl:
After taking your cleansing bath, remember your God in meditation, and your mind and body shall be free of disease.
Millions of obstacles are removed, in the Sanctuary of God, and good fortune dawns. ||1||
The Word of God's Bani, and His Shabad, are the best utterances.
So constantly sing them, listen to them, and read them, O Siblings of Destiny, and the Perfect Guru shall save you. ||Pause||
The glorious greatness of the True Lord is immeasurable; the Merciful Lord is the Lover of His devotees.
He has preserved the honor of His Saints; from the very beginning of time, His Nature is to cherish them. ||2||
So eat the Ambrosial Name of the Lord as your food; put it into your mouth at all times.
The pains of old age and death shall all depart, when you constantly sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord of the Universe. ||3||
My Lord and Master has heard my prayer, and all my affairs have been resolved.
The glorious greatness of Guru Nanak is manifest, throughout all the ages. ||4||11||
Where ever the Guru even looks, even that place becomes blessed. If the Guru looks upon a sinner, that sinner becomes a Saint, this is the power of the True Guru. And wow, the Guru Himself constructed the sarovar. Guru Sahibs Pavitar Charan and Hands must have been in that sarovar. Oh my God, how lucky would a person be to take ishnaan where Guru Sahib Himself put his Pavitar Glance.
The Guru is just too amazing. First the sarovar takes away dualities from the mind of jaat, paat, religion, castes, seperations of humankind; and then the same sarovar has so much more blessings just because it belongs to the Guru, and well whereever there is the Gurus' Bakhshis, there is Waheguruus' Bakhshish.
bhul chuk mauf
waheguruujikakhalsa waheguruujikifateh
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Author: Jarnail Singh Gyani "Arshi"
Date: 09-18-05 04:36
WaheguruJiKaKhalsaWahegurujiKIfateh.
MY Heartfelt thanks to Veer Ji Kulbir Singh Ji, and also Charanjeev Singh Jis.
As is my faith and beleif i read through the messages carefully, slept on them, and at Amrtivela after taking Guru Ji's Hukm..my dubidha on this subject had evaporated. I now look forward to a visit to all the Sarovars of My Beleoved Guru Ji Sahibs with more excitement and reverence than i ever felt before.
DHAN GURU GRANTH JI SAHIB....our Living Guru Ji maharaj. Truly Guru Ji Speaks to those who listen.
Jarnail Singh
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Author: singh
Date: 09-19-05 01:43
giani ji will you be kind to share how you feel about the sarovars
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Author: singh
Date: 09-19-05 07:34
lovely reply kulbir singh ji esp the punjabi
giani ji share how u feel about the sarovars (post dubhida evaporation)
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Author: Niranjan Singh
Date: 09-19-05 10:39
Jarnail Singh Ji,
Many times we misinterpet GurBani and come to the wrong conclusions. I am glad that you have realized the truth.
Very often Prof. Sahib Singh Ji's literature has been used by many Naastics (including Kala Afghana and his stooges) to break the Sikh Quam's sharda for Sikh historic Teeraths and sarovars.
Please read the following links and find out what Prof. Sahib Singh's real views on these subjects :
http://www.khalsaalliance.org/articles/ProfSahibSingh_di_kaswati_kala1.pdf
http://www.khalsaalliance.org/articles/ProfSahibSingh_di_kaswati_kala2.pdf
http://www.khalsaalliance.org/articles/ProfSahibSingh_di_kaswati_kala3.pdf
Upon reading his works, you will be surprised on how much Shardaa Prof. Sahib Singh had for Sikhi and and our historic Teeraths and sarovars.
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Author: Jarnail Singh Gyani "Arshi"
Date: 09-19-05 18:31
Veer Ji Kulbeer Singh Ji writes:
Gurmat Teeraths i.e. having darshan of those places that our Guru Sahibaan personally visited is part of the Gurmat Bibek. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee writes that as the Jyot Vigaasi Singhs do parkarma of Gur-Asthaans i.e. historical Gurdwaras, the jyog vigaas inside them increases manifold.
If Gurmukhi Teeraths had no importance, why did countless Singhs give their lives for the sanctity of Harmandar Sahib? Why did countless sacrifice their lives just to do ishnaan of Siri Amritsar Sahib?
Try doing ishnaan at Darbar Sahib, with full faith and then see the results. Siri Guru Raamdaas jee Maharaaj’s zaahar kala is prevalent in Harmandar Sahib.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
For the time being my take on this is that I am looking forward to an ishnaan at Harmandar Sahib and possibly at as many of the other Gurmat teeraths as I can. Dhan Dhan Guur Ramdass ji has already shown me His Zahar kalla..in Guur Ji's own unique way. So for now i have only this to share with you all....DHAN DHAN GURU RAMDASS JI..Jin sirriah tinneh Swariah SOdhi Sultan Sache Patshah Ji has done immense Kirpa on this sewak. I am Happy beyond Words.
Again my special thanks to the veers Jis who helped me along this path. Proves beyond doubt that This Forum does serve as a learning Aid..even to a "gyani" like me. I look forward to soem more nelightening moments on thsi Forum.. Thank You all.
Jarnail Singh.
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Author: charanjeev singh
Date: 09-19-05 19:58
dhchiae poorab dhaevanaa jis dhee vasath thisai ghar aavai||
bait(h)aa sodtee paathishaah raamadhaas sathiguroo kehaavai||
pooran thaal khattaaeiaa a(n)mrithasar vich joth jagaavai||
oulattaa khael khasa(n)m dhaa oulattee ga(n)g samu(n)dh samaavai||
dhithaa leeeae aapanaa an dhithaa kashh hathh n aavai||
fir aaee ghar arajanae puth sa(n)saaree guroo kehaavai||
jaan n dhaesaa(n) sodteeou(n) horas ajar n jariaa jaavai||
ghar hee kee vaathh gharae rehaavai ||aa||
bhai gurdaas ji
Liabilities of the previous births have to be settled and the thing goes to the house it belongs to.
Now Guru Ram Das, a Sodhi emperor, seated on the Guru-seat is called the true Guru.
He got dug the complete holy tank and here settling down at Amritsar, he spread his light.
Wondrous is the play of the Lord. He can cause Ganges running in opposite direction merge in the ocean.
You get your own; given nothing cannot bring to you anything.
Now the Guruship entered the house of Arjan (Dev) who, to say was the son, but, he proved through his good deeds to be worthy of the Guru-seat.
This Guruship would not go beyond Sodhis because none else can bear with this unbearable.
The thing of the House should remain in the House.
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Author: Jarnail Singh Gyani "Arshi"
Date: 11-29-05 04:01
Guru Piyario Jio,
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI fateh.
As per my wishes and Guru Ji's Command...i have had my ishnaans at ALL the Sarovars in Amrtisar...as well as the Baolis of Goindwaal and Dalla, Fatehgarrh Sahib, Sultan Pur Ber Sahib, Birr Sahib baaba Budha Ji,..and many other historical Gurdawaras in Punjab....
I THANK Dhan Dhan Guru Ramdass Ji.....and a VERY VERY DEAR FRIEND whose generosity helped me achieve this status in life...i am humbled as well as "proud" that I have been blessed with such a Mahaan Guru as my GURU and such friends as my friends...and many GURSIKHS in Punjab who spent so much time and spared NO effort in order to make my wishes come true.
MY plea to all who can...is to have the 84 ishnaans and 84 Japji Sahibs at Goindwaal Sahib.....all at one go..it will be about 30 hours....a time well spent. IN Winter the crowd was negligible..in the summer it may be more. The Steps are not that wide...place for only three persons...
Jarnail Singh.
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Author: singh
Date: 11-30-05 01:39
its crazy. you are proud of bathing at the 84 shrines of pilgramages. something that is not something to be proud of at all.
this is the era of kaljug-manmat somehow =gurmat in soem peoples eyes.
even when it so explicitly states in gurbani that all this a waste of time.
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Author: Jarnail Singh Gyani "Arshi"
Date: 11-30-05 18:10
Author: singh
Date: 11-30-05 01:39
its crazy. you are proud of bathing at the 84 shrines of pilgramages. something that is not something to be proud of at all.
this is the era of kaljug-manmat somehow =gurmat in soem peoples eyes.
even when it so explicitly states in gurbani that all this a waste of time.
.............................................
Excuse me please...........i never bathed at 84 shrines of pilgrimages..and i never said i am "proud" of it and i am definitley not crazy.
How could doing 84 Japji Sahib Paaths be a "waste of time" especially when i did it for my own pleasure and at no one's bidding or out of any compulsion ?? or towards getting any 'gift" or salvation etc.
I beg to differ. It was time well spent and not a waste.
Jarnail singh
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