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Hardeghi Chamach
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: November 10, 2009 08:34AM

Below is an old writeup by this daas, but it is very relevant today too.

Hardeghi Chamach

Bhai Kahn Singh jee Nabha was one of the greatest scholars of Sikh Panth. Mahan Kosh the best Sikh encyclopedia even to this day keeps his memory alive. At a time when Hindus were about to swallow Sikh Panth, he along with other gursikhs of that time vigorously fought back. Bhai Sahib wrote another great book – Hum Hindu Nahee (We are not Hindus), in order to counter the claim by some Sanatanist Hindus that Sikhs were part of the Hindu Dharam.

At that time (and still today) there were Sikhs who proudly subscribed to all faiths along with the Sikh faith. A person who is a Sikh cannot be a Hindu or a Muslim at the same time. A Sikh can only be a Sikh and not a Hindu or a Muslim or a Christian while being a Sikh.

Many Sikhs don’t openly subscribe to other faiths but knowingly or unknowingly a lot of Sikhs are infected with other faiths i.e. subscribe to their philosophies. They don’t see any harm in bowing their head when they see a Church or a temple. I have personally witnessed this. A friend of mine, long time ago, used to bow his head whenever he saw any religious place. I told him that we Sikhs cannot bow our head and matha-tek to anyone but Guru Khalsa Panth and Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee but he in return accused me of being an extremist and even a Taliban. I was sitting there wondering how ignorant modern Sikhs had become.

Anyway, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha terms such Sikhs who subscribe to all faiths as Hardeghi Chamchay i.e. such chamchay that are used to stir vegetable of all sorts. He has written a beautiful poem that I must share with you all:

Devi ko bhagat kabhee meera ko upaasha hai,
Daas Sultan ko au kabhee Laal-Beghi hai||
(Depending on the circle and situation, sometimes he becomes a worshipper of Devi and at other times of Meera. Sometimes they serve Sultan (a sect of Islam) and at other times they become Laal-Beghi (another sect of Islam))


Mann meh hai aur ar mukh maahe dooji baat,
Param Pakhandi, nakh Sikh Lau farebee hai||
(He has one thing in mind and something else on his tongue. He is a Param Pakhandi i.e. a great hyprocrite and a deceiver)


Swarath ko maan hai, mukh parmaarath tain,
Nimboo ko nichod agai karat rakebi hai ||
(From inside they have worldly reasons and aspirations but from tongue they speak of holyness and religion. They crush others as a lemon is crushed)



Singh roop dhaari anai matt ko parchaari bhaari,
Panth ko nikaaray jo chamach Hardeghi hai ||
(Such pakhandi adopts the appearance of a Singh but always sticks up or stands up and preaches other faiths. Such person who undermines Panth is a Hardeghi Chamach)


May Guru Sahib save us from becoming Chamach Hardeghi. Let us stop becoming apologetics for other faiths. Let us become Mighty Khalsay both physically and spiritually. We hate no one but this does not mean that sell out to others. We should not undermine our Guru Sahibaan by saying that they were influenced by others and so on.

Today Sikh scholars shamelessly and perhaps without realising the consequences of what they are writing, are declaring that Baba Farid is the Pitaamah of Punjabi. Others get up and say that Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj was greatly influenced by Bhagat Kabir, Bhagat Naamdev and Bhagat Ravidaas jee. Then others get up and do the work of RSS by saying that Nirgun Pooja in India was not started by Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj but was there prior to Guru Sahib. I ask those Bhadar-Purashs (learned wise men) – Is there anything that Guru Nanak Dev jee started? Pitamah of Punjabi is Farid and Pitamah of Nirgun Pooja is Kabir; then what did Guru Nanak do?

If what Guru Nanak Dev jee was preaching was nothing new then why did he start a new religion? He could have started a reformist movement in Islam or in Hinduism. Why did he opt for a separate religion? Because no other faith can attain Vaheguru but Sikh Panth. The concept of Sach Khand was introduced to this world by Satguru Nanak Dev jee. The other faiths will go where they preach they will go i.e. Hindus to swarag or mukti, Muslims to Jannat, Christians to heaven, Buddhist to Nirvana and Sikhs of Satguru jee to Sach Khand which is much above all these other destinations (Read Siri Jap jee Sahib for more details).

Why did Bhai Gurdas jee say that the condition of this Earth was hopeless before Guru Nanak Dev jee arrived? Earth was badly crushed with bad Karma and there was no Dharam left at all. Furthermore he declares that “Thamay koi na Saadh bin, Saadh na deesai Jag vich koya” i.e. There was no Saadhoo in the world before Guru Nanak Dev jee and without Saadhoo Guru Nanak Dev jee there was no one to console the suffering world. If Kabir jee and Ravidaas jee and Farid jee had been before Satguru jee, then why was the Earth crushed under the weight of sins and why did Bhai Gurdas jee say that there was no Saadh before Satguru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj.

Bhai Gurdaas jee says very passionately that “Mitee dhund Jag Chaanan hoya, Satgur Nanak Pargatiya” i.e. The fog of ignorance dispelled when Guru Nanak Dev jee appeared in this world. Why was there fog if Kabir jee and Farid jee and Ravidaas jee and Naamdev jee had attained Vaheguru and had done bhagtee required to clear the fog?

Khalsa jee, let us not play into the hands of RSS and other fundamentalist Hindus who claim that Guru Nanak Dev jee did nothing new and he did not start a new faith. They say that Satguru jee merely reformed the old Sanatan Hindu Dharam.

Khalsa jeeo, Kabir jee, Ramanand jee, Ravidaas jee and others were doing bhagtee no doubt but they were not on the right track. Guru Nanak Dev jee put them on the right track. Our Janamsaakhis talk about Satguru jee meeting these bhagats in Ayodhya and winning them over. They were old and at this old age they became Guru Sahib’s Sikhs.

Kabir jee, Ravidaas jee, Naamdev jee and Dhanna jee were Sikhs of Swami Ramanand jee who had started Raam Bhagtee by renouncing his Guru - Raghwa jee who was a proponent of Krishna Bhagtee. Ramanand jee preached Raam Bhagti for long time till one day he met Satguru jee.

We should ponder upon the following pankitees of Ramanand jee:

Satguru, Main Balihaari Tor||

Who was he referring to as Satguru jee here? We all know that he had no Guru as he had revolted against his guru Raghwa jee and had started his own branch of Raam Bhagti? Khalsa jeei, it was none other than Guru Nanak Dev jee who taught him Nirgun Pooja. After Ramanand became a disciple of Satguru jee, Kabir jee, Dhanna jee and others followed their Guru as well.

Guru Nanak Dev jee introduced this world to the real pooja of Vaheguru. Before coming in human form, he helped some bhagats of previous jugs but openly he did udhaar (salvation) only in Kalyug. So was the Bhaana of Vaheguru.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Hardeghi Chamach
Posted by: Ekta Singh (IP Logged)
Date: November 10, 2009 10:29AM

Bhai Kulbir Singh jee

1. Are you saying none of the Bhagats attained Vaaheguroo before Guru Nanak Dev Jee?

2. Did Guru Nanak Dev Jee give mukhti to the bhagats when guru jee was in human form or before they came in human form? (How can it be before because per Bhai Gurdas Jee guru jee went into the river for 3 days and brought naam, nine treasures and humilty back from sachkhand. Does that mean guru jee had naam before they went into the river, if so why does bhai gurdas jee say guru jee and brought these 3 things down to the world)

3)Thirdly if guru jee enlightened Bhagats, then why dont they mention Guru Nanak Dev Jee in their baanis.

 



Re: Hardeghi Chamach
Posted by: Sukhdeep SIngh (IP Logged)
Date: November 10, 2009 01:59PM

Great explanation Veer Ji !

I have been thinking about these problems lately. This write up reminded me of the Sri Guru Singh Sabha movement in which many principled Singhs would refute these Hindu-Sikhs through great literature. I was told that the Hindu-SIkhs were able to ban certain literature during the movement. Im guessing literature like Prem Sumarg Granth was banned. I was wondering was there any other great books banned? Which other books by Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji were banned? Is it possible to get a hold of these books today?

It seems like nowadays Sikhi is being watered down more and more especially in Punjab, and institutions like the SGPC and AKal Takht are not doing much Gurmat Parchar.It seems like the only people doing parchar in Punjab is the RSS. I think it would be very beneficial if the affluent SGPC printed out books by Gurmat Scholars like BHai Randhir SIngh Ji and Bhai Kahn SIngh Ji and hand them out to the local villages. These books should also be part of the educational curriculum in religious schools.

I strongly agree with the write up. It appears that many "Gursikhs" like to follow many paths instead of saying dedicated to one path. Besides being engrossed in Hindumat people are starting to get too involved into this " New Age Religion", " Secularism/ Science", and a watered down Sikhi which tells us Rehat is not important in this day and age.

Most rehatnamas are to remind the Gursikh to remain distinct and stay steadfast in Gurmat Principles which in return helps us in our Bhagti because through REhat we stay committed solely to Guru Sahib.

 



Re: Hardeghi Chamach
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: November 11, 2009 08:07AM

Ekta Singh jeeo,

What I am saying is that whoever attained Vaheguru attained through Guru Nanak. There is one Vaheguru, one Satguru, one Satnam and one way to Vaheguru. One Satguru is Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee. Satguru means true Guru and truth can only be one and not two. Since the adjective ‘Satguru’ has been used for Guru Nanak Sahib, it cannot be used for anyone else.

There were many bhagats who had reached the level of Karam Khand by japping a Kirtam Naam. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee has written that such bhagats were blessed by Guru Nanak Sahib and by blessing them Satnam, they were brought to Sachkhand. Most Bhagats who’s baani appears in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee met Guru Sahib physically and obtained Naam from them,. Giani Gurdit Singh in his monumental book on Bhagat Baani has proved beyond doubt that all bhagats met Guru Sahib. I strongly suggest you read this book. This book cannot be summarized in one post. One has to read the book itself to fully understand it.

As for Bhagats not mentioning Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee, Siri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib too have not mentioned about Guru Hargobind Sahib in their baani. It does not mean that they did not accept Guru Hargobind Sahib jee as their Guru. Dhur kee baani is from Vaheguru and only what is in Hukam is mentioned in it.

Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Hardeghi Chamach
Posted by: sss (IP Logged)
Date: November 19, 2009 02:42PM

Vaheguru Jee Kaa Khalsa Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh

I have always been a believer that Sikhi says that if you are a Hindu be a good Hindu, if you are a Muslim follow Islam with full devotion etc etc. Is this a naive interpretation of Sikhi?

Does this mean that those who belong to other religions cannot attain Vaheguru while they follow that path?

What are your views on "Interfaith" in the context of this thread?

Vaheguru Jee Kaa Khalsa Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh

 



Re: Hardeghi Chamach
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: November 20, 2009 07:08AM

SSS jeeo,

-----------
I have always been a believer that Sikhi says that if you are a Hindu be a good Hindu, if you are a Muslim follow Islam with full devotion etc etc. Is this a naive interpretation of Sikhi?
------------

I have heard of this too but I have never found a single reference in Gurbani that backs up this claim that a Hindu should become a good Hindu and a Muslim should become a good Muslim. Instead, Guru Sahib has clearly mentioned that the ways and methods of achieving Vaheguru mentioned in the Vedas and Katebas (the 4 books of Semitic religions) are not perfect and don’t lead one to Vaheguru.

Gurbani clearly mentions that without the Satguru, no one has attained Vaheguru. Guru Sahib would have started a reformist movement if they were in agreement to this principle you have mentioned but instead they started a new religion. They started the new Gurmat religion because the deficiencies in other religions were not possible to clear through a reformist movement.

If you do some research on the archives of this forum and the old forum of this site, you will find detailed analysis on this subject.


-----------
Does this mean that those who belong to other religions cannot attain Vaheguru while they follow that path?
----------

Sikhi preaches that certain faiths take you only thus far but no other path except Sikhi takes you to Vaheguru. In Savaiye Siri Dasmesh jee has clearly mentioned that he has analysed all religions but none of them reaches Vaheguru:

ਸਾਰੇ ਹੀ ਦੇਸ ਕੋ ਦੇਖਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਮਤ ਕੋਊ ਨ ਦੇਖੀਅਤ ਪ੍ਰਾਨਪਤੀ ਕੇ ॥

So clearly Satguru jee is stating that he has seen all ਮਤ (religions) but none of them is of Vaheguru. You can’t get a clearer message than this.

There are 5 Khands of this creation and the highest one is Sachkhand. This is where Gursikhs reside. Some religions go as far as Dharam Khand that contains Hells and Heavens. Others take you to Gyan Khand that may have places like Baikunth etc. Some rare Bhagats who while doing bhagti of Kirtam Naam realize the oneness of God may reach Karam Khand. Anything above Karam Khand is the authority of Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee. Please read books of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee for more details.

-------
What are your views on "Interfaith" in the context of this thread?
--------

With the emergence of atheism in the world with renewed vigour, it has become increasingly important that religious people unite on common issues. Recently such unity amongst different religions was displayed when religious people opposed the gay marriages. On issues like abortion etc. religious people can form a united platform. In any case, Sikhi believes in living in harmony with all people. Sikhi does not believe in imposing your views on others and also preaches freedom of all religion. This is why our 9th Guru Sahib sacrificed their human body. They sacrificed their human body for the freedom of religion. In this particular case they sacrificed for Tilak and Janju of Hindus but I am sure they would have done it for Mussalla (mat on which Muslims pray) and Tasbee (mala that Muslims use to japp), had these items been in trouble.

Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Hardeghi Chamach
Posted by: Sukhdeep SIngh (IP Logged)
Date: November 20, 2009 07:47PM

sss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vaheguru Jee Kaa Khalsa Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh
>
> I have always been a believer that Sikhi says that
> if you are a Hindu be a good Hindu, if you are a
> Muslim follow Islam with full devotion etc etc. Is
> this a naive interpretation of Sikhi?
>
> Does this mean that those who belong to other
> religions cannot attain Vaheguru while they follow
> that path?
>
> What are your views on "Interfaith" in the context
> of this thread?
>
> Vaheguru Jee Kaa Khalsa Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh


In the past Hindus and Muslims would treat each other with spite due to religious differences. They failed to follow the greatest ethical virtue to recognize God in all.
I think if Guru Sahib ever said "if you are a Hindu be a good Hindu, if you are a
Muslim follow Islam with full devotion" most likely Guru Sahib would not be saying be good at aarti, idol worship, halal, ritualism , etc. Instead when Guru Sahib is using the word Good it is referring to practicing virtue. In many of the pangtis in which Guru Sahib addresses the Hindus and Muslims he always advises them to practice virtuous qualities like devotion to God, contentment, truth,etc. I do think that other faiths have good things to offer, but they still fall short from the true path, So I dont think GUru Ji would be saying if your born a Hindu be a good Hindu and so forth.

 





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