ਪ੍ਰਥਮਰਹਿਤਯਹਿਜਾਨਖੰਡੇਕੀਪਾਹੁਲਛਕੇ॥ ਸੋਈਸਿੰਘਪ੍ਰਧਾਨਅਵਰਨਪਾਹੁਲਜੋਲਏ॥

Akal Purakh Kee Rachha Hamnai, SarbLoh Dee Racchia Hamanai


ARCHIVED FORUM: Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib
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Science and Gurmat - Yet again!
Posted by : Mkhalsa
Date: 7/22/2004 7:06 pm


A study came out today showing that kaami movies can induce kaam. In fact, they even quantified it. 10% rise of hormones linked to romanticism. Pretty interesting.

Heres the article:

Movies Really Can Put You in the Mood, Study Finds

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Watching a movie can boost hormone levels, making men and women feel more romantic or more aggressive, U.S. researchers said on Thursday.

Sentimental films such as "The Bridges of Madison County" caused levels of the hormone progesterone to rise by more than 10 percent in both men and women, the team at the University of Michigan found.

Women's testosterone levels were unchanged during and after the Clint Eastwood movie about a love affair, while men's testosterone levels fell.

"The Godfather Part II" aroused a different sort of passion. While watching the crime and action film, men with the highest levels of testosterone had them soar by as much as 30 percent more.

But men and women watching a documentary about the Amazon rain forest (news - web sites) were unaffected, the study found.

"When you're watching movies, your hormones are responding, not just your mind," said Oliver Schultheiss, a psychology professor who led the study.

"If you want to learn about someone's personality, look at their video collection," added Schultheiss, who published his study in the journal Hormones and Behavior.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=751&e=1&u=/nm/20040722/hl_nm/health_hormones_dc
Re: Science and Gurmat - Yet again!
Posted by : A Singh
Date: 7/23/2004 4:38 am


Why are we so obsessed with proving Gurmat with "science"??? This is so typical of 'rationalised' protestants and so-called modern scholars.

Gurmat is eternal as we always recite with the Mool Mantr (Aad Sach, Jugad Sach, Hai Bhi Sach Nanak sobee sach), science on the other hand is always updating itself and disproving itself over 50 year cycles, so why are we so keen to rely on it as a measurement of 'truth?'

No problem with the article, just querying why we have to adopt this all-so western attitude towards religion by seeking scientific explanations...
Re: Science and Gurmat - Yet again!
Posted by : M Singh
Date: 7/23/2004 6:44 am


Of course, true. What we watch, that is going to affect.
Re: Science and Gurmat - Yet again!
Posted by : Mkhalsa
Date: 7/23/2004 4:46 pm


A Singh bhai sahib,

Its not about proving gurmat right with science, rather its proving science right with gurmat. haha

and also, the rest of the world beleives in science more than any other dharam. science drives everything. one good thing about science is that they are always seeking the truth and will change their minds if they realize that what they have beleive previously is not true. is this not gurmat? are we not always seeking the truth and willing to change ourselves for it?

the more we show the world how scientific sikhi is, the more sikhi will become a dharam for the world to look to, just like science. science may be the standard today, but we can use that standard to show the correctness of gursikhi.

also, following sikhi blindly is not something that a lot of people are ready to do. by showing htem proof ie through studies and other things (aka science), they are more willing to follow it. guru nanak dev jee did this many times. To prove that throwing water at the sky is useless at hardwar he said he was watering plants in punjab, this caused people to logically rethink their actions.

same at mecca, when mecca kept moving with his feet, guru sahib showed them that god is everywhere.

logic is a core part of sikhi, whether people want to beleive it or not. I would still be questioning if there is a god had I not seen the perfect logic and structure behind sikhi and behind guru sahibs actions. this is how perfect guru sahib and sikhi are.
Re: Science and Gurmat - Yet again!
Posted by : Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani
Date: 7/23/2004 5:28 pm


Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa waheguru ji ki afteh.

Mkhalsa Ji:
you wrote.....>>>" also, following sikhi blindly is not something that a lot of people are ready to do.<<<<

SIKHI MUST NOT be followed BLINDLY at any COST. GURMATT is all about KNOWING WAHEGURU, RECOGNISING HIM and LOVING HIM.

SIKHI is the ONLY Dharam in the world that DOES NOT DEMAND BLIND FAITH...BLIND LOVE...."just close your eyes tight and follow me" kind of thing. Gurmatt is RATIONAL...... LOGICAL...and Proven FACTS not theories.
This si the sole reason why Gurmatt and Science have no CONFLICT and never will..... BECAUSE GURMATT has reached the ENDS while SCIENCE is still on its journey...and as it goes along it is Science that needs to change its wrong assumptions ( if any)...and Scientists are NOT BLIND FUNDAENTALISTS who refuse to change when proven wrong.

It is the sant/baba/derawallhs that PROMOTE wild "sakhis" half untruths, full untruths, MYTHS etc that ENCOURAGE "BLIND FAITH" among their followers...because they KNOW that if the followers chelas realsie the TRUTH... their BUBBLE will BURST... so instead of KNOWLEDGE, these charlatans promote Jantar mantar paath with Vidhee, this paath that paath, this amrit that amrit, holy mud, holy ash, holy water...as CURES instead of TEACHING the REAL GURBANI which will lift the VEIL of DARKNESS - Mith gayee dhund jagg channan hoiyah.... BUT the babas want DARKNESS to carry on their nefarious business of following the chelas..

Now a days these babas have gone "high tech"... they have TAPES of CONVERSATIONS....and INSTRUCTIONS..... Osama Bin laden Style


Dass jarnail singh
Re: Science and Gurmat - Yet again!
Posted by : P Singh
Date: 7/23/2004 6:33 pm


not a earth shattering study by any means, its like stating the obvious in my opinion.
Re: Science and Gurmat - Yet again!
Posted by : khalistani
Date: 7/25/2004 12:44 am


Vaheguru je ka khalsa, Vaheguru je ke fateh!!

science also says a lot of stuff against sikhi
for example, just cause something might be good for our phisical bodys dont mean it is good for us in our long run with akal purkh je
bhula chuka maf

Vaheguru je ka khalsa, Vaheguru je ke fateh!!
Re: Science and Gurmat - Yet again!
Posted by : Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani
Date: 7/25/2004 8:17 pm


waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki afteh.

khalistani veer ji.

would be thankful if you could provide a few specific examples of how science is anti-gurmatt. your message left me high and dry... there is nothing specific...just lots of stuff !!

thanks

dass jarnail singh
Re: Science and Gurmat - Yet again!
Posted by : believer
Date: 7/26/2004 7:46 am


wjkk wjkf.


i agree that this is kind of obvious as sikhs don't watch much TV as a lot of the time tghey promote negative thoughts and distractiins-so how its a leisure activity i do not know!!!


so just imagine what else effects the inner balance of the body- where we go, what we eat, what music we listen to.......etc.


wjkk wjkf.
Re: Science and Gurmat - Yet again!
Posted by : Jugraj Singh
Date: 7/26/2004 8:21 am


Science is an effort to better understand the workings of our environment.

Back in the good old days people studied science for science. There were no political motivations.

However, the days of "ivory tower" science are gone. Political and Social and most importantly the commercial impact of a given field of study dictates the future course the reseach will take.

All kinds of pressure is exerted from both the government and private sector on scietists to publish results which will promote the financers agenda.

These days there is no real consideration for the future of humanity reflected in scientific work. A lot of the genetic technology is totally against gurmat.

For example these days a couple can get a genetic make-up of their child before he or she is born and then from the genes it can be determined what diseases the child etc. will most likely have.

Their are so many ethical dilemas with issues such as cloning that most people are easily swayed either way.

The relationship of importance between Science and Sikhi is not that "science can prove Sikhi" or "Sikhi can prove science to be right" but rather the fact that morals that are taught in Gurbani are now needed more then ever to clear the ethical and moral confusion created by the advent of various technologies.

"Gur bin Ghor Andhar..."
Re: Science and Gurmat - Yet again!
Posted by : P Singh
Date: 7/26/2004 9:36 am


Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani,

Scientists will often come out with studies that say "a glass of wine a day is very healthy" "A Tylenol a day will keep the doctor away". This is what khalistani bro was trying to say (I believe).
Re: Science and Gurmat - Yet again!
Posted by : another singh :)
Date: 7/26/2004 2:02 pm


could glass of wine a day be the same as glass of grape juice a day in promoting health?

b/c i've read that even a glass of beer a dayincreases chances of dementia. so i don't think its the alcohol factor necessarily. its the tannins the the grape skin. but i bet it's very profitible for wineries when scientists announce results in the way they do.
Re: Science and Gurmat - Yet again!
Posted by : Jarnail Singh Arshi Gyani
Date: 7/26/2004 7:13 pm


waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.

dear p singh ji..

those types of "studies" are a dime a dozen.....that is NOT Science.
if a group of "scientist" say **** is good for you....another group will say &&&& is good for you !!!...these are just "opinions"..... jsut as an "engineer's" opinions dont mean "engineering".... a scientist's opinion is not science. doctors will also tell us..this is good this is bad... all their own opinions... we need not follow. i remeber when my dad had his first heart attack..the doctors told him to start drinking a glass of wine a day....his answer was I have lived for so long without even "reading" about wine much less see it or touch it...why should i now go against my guru ji just for a few more years of life... so we have our right to have our own opinions as well.

real science is a field of knowledge..like geography, history and it has to be acceptable to all. as far as this type of science is concerned there is absolutely no conflict with gurmatt...unlike other religions.

Dass jarnail singh