ਚੁਕਾਰਅਜ਼ਹਮਹਹੀਲਤੇਦਰਗੁਜ਼ਸ਼ਤ॥ਹਲਾਲਅਸਤਬੁਰਦਨਬਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰਦਸਤ॥੨੨॥ (ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥)

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Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: yes (IP Logged)
Date: January 11, 2008 04:52PM

I have been wanting to ask this question for quite a while but I was a bit wary of raising controversial issues.... so here goes:

Why did Guru Gobind Singh ji not include his Bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and instead have a separate volume in the Dasam Granth..

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: January 12, 2008 04:54AM

Dear veer,
its a tough question. I will answer to the best of my ability. I feel that Angs of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is NIRANKAAR. Now one has to become a brahamgyani to understand how this bani is nirankaar, but its nirankaar no doubt.Neither any word can be added nor deleted from this Bani. And its not written by different individuals, this dhur de baani is written by ONLY SATGURU JEE. For example when we say bani of mahalla 2, this does not mean that this bani was written by Bhai Lehnna Jee. This bani was written by SAtguru Jee staying in Mahal(palace) of Bhai Lehna jee making him Guru Angad Dev Jee Maharaj Jee.
NOw bani of DAsam Granth is Gurbani(the enemies of panth dont want sikhs to read Dasam Granth Jee).Gurbani means bani or set of words coming from the mouth of SAtguru Jee. Like there are many words that SAtguru Jee spoke that we find in rehitnamas or Bhai Nand Lal Jee' bani, even those words are gurbani. SAtguru Sri Guru Granth SAhib Jee is not just Gurbani bani but is Nirankaar. I hope I am able to explain my views properly.
Bhull chukk dee maafi bakshanni

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: Koi (IP Logged)
Date: January 12, 2008 05:01AM

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Only Satguru Ji knows the true reason. But, as you know, Guruship was bestowed only on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. In that sense, look at the humility of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. He is not comparing or "leveling" his Bani with that of the previous Guru's, Bhatts, Bhagats. His humility knows no bounds.

The Dasam Granth Sahib Ji was compiled after Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji by Bhai Mani Singh Ji, with the permission of Mata Sundri Ji. The various writings of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji were collected and bound together in this one volume.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: yes (IP Logged)
Date: January 12, 2008 07:48AM

If Guru Gobind Singh Ji was being humble then what does that make the other Gurus?
If they all had the one Jyot then how come they act differntly in this sense...

pardon my ignorance.

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: Ghareeb (IP Logged)
Date: January 12, 2008 08:04AM

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

I understand that some scholars say that some clever brahminic writers added some writings to compositions such as Akal Ustat, the writings that are nothing but the praise of godess. This writing suddenly starts after the wonderful stream of ideas such as 'Manas ki jaat... pahichanbo'.

How do we discount such possibility? How does one confirm the authenticity of these bits apparently incongruent ideas with ideas congruent with Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji?

Bhul chuk maaf

Ghareeb

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: Xylitol (IP Logged)
Date: January 12, 2008 06:28PM

Guru Granth Sahib ji states 'Bani Guru, Guru hai Bani' so all Gurbani has status of Guruship, including Dasam BAni. Although formal Guruship was never granted, it is still just as authoritative for us as Bani from Guru Granth Sahib ji.

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: January 14, 2008 02:43AM

<<Guru Granth Sahib ji states 'Bani Guru, Guru hai Bani' so all Gurbani has status of Guruship, including Dasam BAni. Although formal Guruship was never granted, it is still just as authoritative for us as Bani from Guru Granth Sahib ji.>>

Yes,all gurbani is guru But then the gurmantar or gurshabad or Naam is Guru as well. But ONLY Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Maharaaj Jee's Laridaar saroop has the JYOT. Thats the key to understand.Dasam bani is Gurbani but only the words of gurbani(in larridar format) in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Maharaaj Jee has the JYOT.
Another thing I will like to say is that all bani belongs to Satguru Jee. So Dasam bani or bhattan de bani or bhagtan de bani all bani came from Satguru Jee.

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: Xylitol (IP Logged)
Date: January 15, 2008 11:05AM

If all Bani is the Guru, than how could any of it lack the jyot?

As far as i'm aware, formal Guruship was only passed onto Guru Granth Sahib ji, but all bani is equally authoritative, and is equal in status.

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: January 16, 2008 03:27AM

<<If all Bani is the Guru, than how could any of it lack the jyot? >>

Comeon! its not that tough to understand this. SAtguru jee's jyot stayed in 10 human bodies from Guru Nanak Dev Jee Maharaaj to Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj.At present this jyot is in a book(making this book LIVING GURU).Earlier this jyot was in flesh, now its in paper. Gutkas, Dasam Granth shud be given top respect but they dont have the jyot. Dont assume this jyot to be some candle flame,become a brahamgyani and u will get to kow what this jyot is.Its cant be explained via words,language.

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: Xylitol (IP Logged)
Date: January 16, 2008 11:27AM

don't have dual vision ji. all bani has light of Guru in it.

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: January 16, 2008 11:37PM

Dear xylitol, I admire and respect your love for Gurbani but unfortunately wont be able to agree with u on the point that all Gurbani has the jyot. Only words of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Maharaj Laredar's Saroop has the jyot.But Even for this disagreement, u are still a dear brother of mine.

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: Ekta Singh (IP Logged)
Date: January 17, 2008 10:03AM

Harinder Singh brother, Bhai Rama Singh UK was a gurmukh, he had experiences of all 10 guru's with pad ched saroop. To read lareedar one has to break the words up anyway, so i doesnt really make that much of a difference.

HOWEVER I still feel larevaar saroops should come back into our gurdwhara!!

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: January 18, 2008 01:53AM

Dear Veerji, Satguru jee is sabnan gallan samrath. If Satguru jee wishes, He can give darshan through a gutka. If Satguru jee wishes, He can give Naam withuth the amrit sancahr ceremony.(Bhai Sahib has written in some book that there was a singh in jail who was really desperate to get amrit. Bhai Sahib told him to do ardaas before dunia de malakk, he did that and soon after his naam khanda started running).But these are exceptions and these exceptions shud not be allowed to violate the maryada or sanskaars put into practice by Satguru Jee.

<<To read lareedar one has to break the words up anyway, so i doesnt really make that much of a difference. >>
There is a difference. if breaking of words is done by reader. mistake committed by him would be his mistake, but if the saroop has a mistake then it means that Satguru jee is making a mistake which is not possible as
satguru/waheguru is above mistake. "bhullan andarr sab ko abhul gur kartaar."
Breaking words is maha manmatt. It can do anarth of meanings and other than this this breaking of words will have other problems too which some brahamgyani might be knowing, we mortals cant understand this.
Pad chedd sarropps are maha manmatt and people who print such saroops(for maya) dont know that 84 da gerra is extremely painful and they might have to wander through many 84 de gerraas.

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: Anonymous User (IP Logged)
Date: January 26, 2008 08:27AM

Gurfateh

Das is dead busy to carry out checks and editing of one Sikhism related website,which RSS will be launching soon(das will give its details later).So more input could not be given but there is simple reason that why there are three texts?

If we carry out Prakash(bringing Guru to devotees for thier glimpse) and Santokh(let Guru go to rest).

We find that to carry Guru on head needs good lots of labour.

Then if we imagine three times the size of one standard copy of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

So fact is that in order to let Sangat handle three volumes of Adi Guru Granth Sahib,Shri Dasham Granth Sahib,Shri Sarbloh Granth sahib with ease so three differnt texts were ben made.

Lastly often missionary related to Kala Afghana ask why did not Guru (Dasham Patsah) added at least one verse of him.

Das can prove one verse in Guru Granth Sahib Ji could be from poet Ram.And as per grammer missionary follow but wil not post here.

But there could be one counter question over here that,that verse only could be from Guru and rest is a hoax.

Thinking that das thnks that Guru did not add even a single verse of him in Guru Granth Sahib.

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: Ekta Singh (IP Logged)
Date: January 27, 2008 04:08PM

Harinder Singh I would use my words very carefully calling pad ched maha manmat

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: silahiwala (IP Logged)
Date: January 27, 2008 04:12PM

Gurfateh Sangat Jio.

The following is only Daas's own view inspired by other gursikhs in relation to above discussions. Daas (with very limited intellect) believes that:

1.Panched guru saroop is equal to Laridaar saroop, because its the same light of Guru Nanak-Gobind Singh. The same amount of laha is available. Guru will still contain the same unlimited greatness no matter how much WE (HUMANITY/PANTH/PUBLISHERS) may torture his physical body/saroop,-Guru Arjan still contained the same greatness no matter how much torture his misguided Mughal children inflicted upon his sareer.
Guru Hargobind's prison maltreatments and Guru Harkrishan's disease afflictions could not decrease their greatness even though their physical bodies were slowly perishing.
Guru Teg Bahadur stated that 'you may remove my head but i will still not die, i will still continue this path of dharma until akaal purakh ordains it otherwise'-he still continued giving darshan to those sikhs that desired to see him, through the seva of bhai Jaitha revealing guru's as-ever radiant head while taking it back to Anandpur sahib. The Guru’s still showered the same Pyaar and Kirpa to all the sangat that came in hundreds/thousands to get their darshan while they were being maltreated/physically abused in every manner. They even continued to show Pyaar to those doing the maltreatments because they saw it as God’s will ‘Tera Kia Mitha Laagai, Har Naam Padaarath Nanak Mangai’

THEREFORE in CONCLUSION Panched is only bad on OUR part because we are allowing the torture of guruji. The puratan Sikhs were given hukum of not to interfere against Guru’s maltreatments, until the arrival of the TENTH Master whom gave us the Hukum of not to watch anymore, but to prevent and destroy (as last resort) all the tyrants that do beadbi of Guruji and to the path of dharma. So we (daas included) must not standby and watch anymore, we must push our sikhi to the utmost level inspiring each other to attain pakka Amritvela, Sarbloh Bibek, reading Laridaar Saroop and following every other command of guruji to get out of this cycle of birth and death.

2. ‘’Why did Guru Gobind Singh ji not include his Bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and instead have a separate volume in the Dasam Granth.’’

Daas’s answer: - because Guru Gobind Singh being Guru Nanak being Akaal Purakh didn’t need to add anymore to create perfection. All the answers to life are contained in the Guru Granth Sahib and all other bani is just extra knowledge praise/rass/bliss of akaal purakh. Dasam granth being birr rass bani is extra physical power which is necessary to uphold the faith against tyranny which we’re given hukum to do always by tenth master onwards with no more watching injustice but action against it..
Bhull Chuk Maaf Karni. Gurfateh!

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: January 28, 2008 01:04AM

<<Harinder Singh I would use my words very carefully calling pad ched maha manmat>>

Veer jeeo
Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee used these words. Sometime back there was an article on this very website about it. U could email admin jee to know more about that in detail. Bhai Sahib who was one of the top sikhs ever to visit this very earth used these words.

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: January 28, 2008 03:17AM

Why is Gutka not a saroop of Satguru Jee?
Because it does not contain all the sentences or words of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Maharaj.Say some jathebandi starts to publish a massive gutka that contains around 1400 angs of Satguru jee but still it will remain a gutka untill all the angs are included.
Now the question is that does the pad chedd include all the sentences or words of Satguru Jee?
Answer is NO?
What is Gurbani? Gurbani is a set or collection of sentences coming from the lotus mouth of Satguru jee. These sentences are further a collection of words.If the words gets changed, sentence gets changed and the new sentence does not belong to Satguru jee.

Lets say there is some place on this earth called morrow.
Now if i speak: I am going to morrow. Thats my sentence.
Now if somebody changes my statement to: I am going tomorrow.
Will this new sentence by my speech. NO.Its not mine. In the same way pad chedd contains many sentences that do not belong to Satguru Jee. Those sentences belong to the printer who did the pad chedd. Now this is maha paap.

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: January 28, 2008 07:01AM

Well said Veer Harinder Singh jeeo. The problem with padd-chhed is that it does not contain all baani because of the way it separates words can be different from the original baani that was revealed to Guru Sahib.

Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Dasam Patshah di Bani....
Posted by: Ranbir Singh (IP Logged)
Date: January 28, 2008 08:05PM

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Veer Harjinder SIngh Ji you wrote:
"Comeon! its not that tough to understand this. SAtguru jee's jyot stayed in 10 human bodies from Guru Nanak Dev Jee Maharaaj to Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj.At present this jyot is in a book(making this book LIVING GURU).Earlier this jyot was in flesh, now its in paper. Gutkas, Dasam Granth shud be given top respect but they dont have the jyot. Dont assume this jyot to be some candle flame,become a brahamgyani and u will get to kow what this jyot is.Its cant be explained via words,language."

Are you a Brahm Giani?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 
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