In Gurmat Lekh Bhai Sahib mentioned that Bhagats were called from Karam Khand by Guru Sahib and by Guru's kirpa they recited Bani which was added in Guru Granth Sahib. Can someone explain this in details? I believe every word of Gurbani came directly from Sachkhand but was spoken through Guru Sahib, Bhagats and others. If Bhagats did come from Karam Khand then what exactly was the point of calling them when Guru Sahib Himself could recite the same Bani?

Bhai Sahib does not give any details about what he means that he called them from Karam Khand.

There is proof that Guru Sahib met with the Bhagats in person.

I think that the point of having the Bhatt or Bhagats uchaar bani was to give them vadaiyaiee. The Bani is still of Satguru but he gave his Sikhs vadiyaee of having them speak it. It is a testament to the power of Sikh and naam that a Sikh can reach such a level or kirpa.

I would consider the comments of Bhai Sahib an insult to the memories and the contribution the Bhagats to Sri Guru Granth Sahib. One would conclude from the his comments that the Bhagats failed to achieve salvation and hence are still in Karam Khanda.

If they are still in karam khand then their bani that our Gurus Specially requested from the sources that held it would be regarded as kachi bani. Are our Gurus right or is Bhai Sahib right. Bhagats are souls that have gone beyond Par Braham and not in Braham waiting to fulfil their Karmas.

My humble opinion

Musafir ji,

If you'd cared to read the original as opposed to making assumptions, you'd know that they reached KaramKhand through meditation on kirtam naam but only through Satguru Nanak and Gurmat Naam did they reach SachKhand. There is no suggestion that they did not attain Sachkhand, only that they reached AFTER meeting Guru Nanak.

In a katha entitled Raj Karega Khalsa Baba Kartar Singh ji tells us about his meeting with shaheed singhs. The Singhs tell him that after shaheedi, they were given the choice of going to Sach Khand, or remaining to do more seva. They chose seva, and so were waiting in Karm Khand for when they were needed.

I am afraid you people are living in a land of imagination. You appear to have a lot of faith in make believe stories. The mind is very versatile. If you try hard and with experience it will give you exactly what you want. You want to see Baba Nanak with four arms and that is what you will get. These writers have wild imaginations. You start your journey with imaginationary thougts and ou will be forever chasing your own tail.Souls have reached Sachkhand before Baba Nanak. Our Gurus are not running a seva camp up in Karam Khand. To think so in nievity.

We are living i Kalyug brother.
Dharam pankh kar uddreo
Dharam has flown away with wing.

Give up wild imaginations. Understand and believe in Bani and Bani alone.

Musafir Sahib,

You say "Souls have reached Sachkhand before Baba Nanak. "

I have some problems with this statement. The first is, how would you know if this is true or not unless you have seen it?

Secondly, I don't think there is a 'before Baba Nanak'. Guru Nanak is Satguru of the 4 ages and has existed since the prime. He came in bodily form in 1469 but he was the one who blessed Bhagats like Prehlad and Dhru.

Gurbani is clear: bin satgur kinai na paaiyo bin satgur kinai na paaiyaa. We also know that Vahiguru is only "gur parsaad". We also know from Gurbani, "ikka bani ikk gur iko shabad veechar". The path to Vahiguru is thus only through Guru Nanak's kirpa or prasaad.

So, it seems quite clear that indeed, there was nothing before Baba Nanak and no one has gone to Sachkhand without becoming a Sikh of Guru Nanak and receiving his kirpa.

Balpreet Singh, could you tell me what naam were Bhagats Dhru and Prehlaad blessed with? Was it gurmantar or kirtam naam? And Bani mentions that a child in the womb does simran "Maat Garabh Meh Aapan Simran Deh..". So what kind of simran does an unborn child do? Does it meditate on "Ik Oankar".

Guru Sahib tells us very clearly what naam they were given. Ang 995, whole shabad is important to read.

"Mere man naam japat udharay. Dhru Prehlaad Bidar daasi sut, Gurmukh naam taray"

Not any naam but GURMUKH naam or Gurmantar.


In the Garabh, Gurbani tells us there is 'simran', this doesn't mean they have been given Gurmantar. It just means they are in remembrance of Vahiguru or their maker. I don't know if they are doing jaap of anything or not, but Gurmantar is only obtained from Guru Nanak at the time of deekhyaa or Khanday Kee Paahul.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2007 12:11PM by admin.

noone reached sach khand before satguru nanak?

i thought people like ganika reached sach khand through devotional simran, and prahalad etc...

??

shaheed singhs in sachkhand ?

imho there are shabds in SGGS Ji that declare that ONLY NAAM entitles one to sach khand....being a shaheed is no guarantee. I am not saying shahedee is not good or anything remotely like that..just that ONLY and ONLY NAAM will get you entry into SK...just like only a passport will get you across aborder and not a driving license or other ID.

How could prahlaad, dhroo, ajaamil etc, have reached Saachkhand, they all recited kirtam naam. Kirtam naam is Raam, Har etc. By reciting these they went to heaven below Vishnu. God created one god for every universe, Vishnu, and if one recites his name you're not going to go above him. But at his level or to a heaven below him. Therefore, how can you go to saachkhand if you don't recite God's name, Satnaam Vaheguru.

These bhagats from previous Yugs did not know that Vaheguru Ji existed, but only knew that Vishnu existed. So, they did meditation on his name. How could they have known Gurmantar. This is was FIRST given to the FIRST SAINT TO MEET VAHEGURU JI, AND BECOME ONE WITH HIM, who is GURU NANAK DEV JI. In return, Guru Ji blessed many spiritual beings in heavens, underworlds, and on earth.

Bhai Sahib Ji also says that Prahlaad and many angels were liberated when they met Guru Amar Das ji at a festival on earth. The festival is in Gurbani; a shabad has been written on it.

To ekmusafir_ajnabi:

You're the one imagining. You think it's easy to be accepted at Saachkhand. Dream on.

ONE MORE THING: BHAI SAHIB RANDHIR SINGH BECAME ONE WITH GOD, VAHEGURU JI. SO WHY WOULD'NT HE KNOW THE TRUTH AND WRITE THE TRUTH.

I agree with "Death" jee. Udhaar (liberation) is of many kinds. For a jeev stuck in 8.4 million joonis (lifeforms) liberation from this cycle is an udhaar. But the ultimate udhaar is when the jeev resides in Sach Khand, the eternal abode of Vaheguru.

One can get gatt (liberation) only when one meets the true Guru. Vaheguru is one and Satguru is also one only. Satguru Nanak Dev jee is the true Guru and it is wrong to say that he only arrived in 1469. He was forever alive in Jyot form prior to that. The avatar for Kalyug is Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee and prior to this yug, Satguru jee worked through avatars of those yugs e.g. Siri Krishna, Siri Rama, Bawan Avatar etc. Gurbani, especially, baani of Bhagats make this abundantly clear.

Kulbir Singh

Bhai Sahib Kulbir Singh so if one gets into giann khand, saram khand and karamkhand does that mean they r liberated and never have to come in 8.4 million lfe forms?

Another question is if one gets into gian khand, saram khand or karam khand because they did'nt have that much kirpaa from guru sahib, then what would they when they get into these khands?

How will they get into sachkhand, will it still be possible to get intoi sachkhand if u only reach the three khands gian, saram and karamkhand. What will one have to to do to reach sachkand??

Gurfateh Jee

Balpreet Singh

"Secondly, I don't think there is a 'before Baba Nanak'. Guru Nanak is Satguru of the 4 ages and has existed since the prime. He came in bodily form in 1469 but he was the one who blessed Bhagats like Prehlad and Dhru."

Could you tell me where it says that Guru Nanak Dev ji had a monopoly on who goes to Sach Khand or who does not. At least I can confidently say that he has made no such claims. Looks like this is the works of Bhai Randhir Singh.

Death

"How could prahlaad, dhroo, ajaamil etc, have reached Saachkhand, they all recited kirtam naam. Kirtam naam is Raam, Har etc. By reciting these they went to heaven below Vishnu. God created one god for every universe, Vishnu, and if one recites his name you're not going to go above him. But at his level or to a heaven below him. Therefore, how can you go to saachkhand if you don't recite God's name, Satnaam Vaheguru."

Raam and Har are also Gurmatars. Try to read and understand Gurbani properly.

"So, they did meditation on his name. How could they have known Gurmantar. This is was FIRST given to the FIRST SAINT TO MEET VAHEGURU JI, AND BECOME ONE WITH HIM, who is GURU NANAK DEV JI. In return, Guru Ji blessed many spiritual beings in heavens, underworlds, and on earth."

Do you understand what Gurmantar is ?

"Bhai Sahib Ji also says that Prahlaad and many angels were liberated when they met Guru Amar Das ji at a festival on earth."

Come on guys makeup your mind who liberated Prehlad and Dhru. Balpreet Singh thinks it was Guru Nanak and you tell me it is Guru Amar Das ji. You do have a wild imagination.

"These bhagats from previous Yugs did not know that Vaheguru Ji existed, but only knew that Vishnu existed."

I am sorry to say, you do not know what you are talking about. Do you even know what Vaheguru is?

"ONE MORE THING: BHAI SAHIB RANDHIR SINGH BECAME ONE WITH GOD, VAHEGURU JI. SO WHY WOULD'NT HE KNOW THE TRUTH AND WRITE THE TRUTH."

What evidence do you have that Bhai Randhir Singh became one with God. I can prove he did not. He is most probably wandering among us.

Kulbir Singh

"The avatar for Kalyug is Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee."

I agree only with this point. The rest of your comments are hear say. You have been reading too many of Bhai Randhir Singh’s books.

Ekmusafir_ajnabi

What evidence do you have that Bhai Randhir Singh became one with God. I can prove he did not. He is most probably wandering among us.

If that was the case, you would be a BrahmGyani, and most likely wouldn't be posting here.

'Do you understand what Gurmantar is ?'

Let me answer that for you, DIPSTICK:

Gur-mantar is the Guru's magic chant. Now, the Guru's magic chant is Satnaam Vaheguru, which is composed of all the minor names of God, such as V for Vishnu, H for har, G for Govind and R for Raam. These minor names fuse into one to become the Satnaam. The minor names only were effective in the other yugs but not in this one. For that reason they were joined to make Vaheguru. The line below is from Bhai Gurdaas Ji's vara, it is refering to Guru Ji:

vaahiguroo guroo ma(n)thr hai jap houmai(n) khoee||
His Guru-manta is Vahiguru, whose recitation erases egotism.

Here's another:

baabaa paidhhaa sach kha(n)dd naanidhh naam gareebee paaee||
Baba reached the region of truth wherefrom he received Nam, the storehouse of nine treasures and humility.

Here Bhai Gurdas Ji states that Guru Nanak Dev Ji received Naam as soon as he reached Saachkhand. Why would he receive naam in Saachkhand if he was already reciting it in order to reach it? Huh?? WAIT A MOMENT, that would mean bhagat dhroo and the other bhagats were not reciting that name which is needed to reach saachkhand. The other names were true names of that time but not now; they're completely uneffective. Read another line from bhai gurdas ji's vara:

kalijug baabae thaariaa saathanaam parrh ma(n)thr sunaayaa||
Baba Nanak rescued this dark age (kaliyug) and recited ‘satinam’ mantr for one and all.

Now, Vahiguru of course is the True Guru of all times so his Naam from minor avtaars worked. Thus, when Bhagat Dhru did his meditation he only knew God as the form of Vishnu, one form of Vaheguru, but not the real form, and so he got his darshan of that form by reciting the name under that one. Vishnu of the previous yugs in his major incarnations such as ramchdar, krishna etc, were the guru of that time. BUT not the Ultimate Guru because they still had flaws. Firstly they hadn't done joti jot with God, whoever hasn't has flaws, Guru Nanak Dev Ji had which made him perfect.

Finally, you would have to have taken AMRIT to enter Saachkhand. Bhagat Dhru or Bhagat Prahlaad had not taken it. So, how could they have been allowed in Saachkhand when Amrit began with Guru Nanak.

"Bhai Sahib Ji also says that Prahlaad and many angels were liberated when they met Guru Amar Das ji at a festival on earth."

Read it in Gurbani. And Guru Nanak dev ji is Guru Amar Das ji and vice versa. Gurbani says prahlaad went to meet him at a festival on earth; why would prahlaad do that if he was already in SAACHKHAND!?

'Do you even know what Vaheguru is?'

Vaheguru is the perfect true guru in his original form, not any other form. ALSO YOU HAVE TO BE VAHEGURU TO KNOW HIM.

There is nothing more to be said: You can argue with yourself now.

ekmusafir_ajnabi

What evidence do you have that Bhai Randhir Singh became one with God. I can prove he did not. He is most probably wandering among us.

Whats ur proof then??

Even great gursikhs like Bhai Vir Singh say that Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singhs character was very high and he would never lie. Bhai Sahib went without food and water for 40days. His Medical ticket shows this as prooof and Bhai Sahib had to stay in solidaryconfinement for many years, could you even do that for one night?

Bhai Sahib was a amazing gurmukh and inspired may of his companions!!!

according to gyani thakur singh ji, guru nanak dev ji was first into sachkhand. this is b/c gates were closed to others before that time. however, never have i heard that previous bhagats meditated on only kirtam naam except from this site.

in bhai gurdass ji's vaars there are numerous references made to bhagats being given gurmantr (gurmantr was different in different ages), and there are references made to them having Gurus (which is a requirement for entry to sach khand).

however, guru nanak dev ji was first into sach khand, i think it was vadiaye b/c he was guru avtar, the highest form of avtar.

They probably did have the gurmantar but not the one needed to get into Saachkhand.