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shabad question
Posted by: anom7 (IP Logged)
Date: March 10, 2008 04:35AM

haumY krm kmwvdy jmfMfu lgY iqn Awie ]

houmai karam kamaavadhae jamadda(n)dd lagai thin aae ||

Those who go around acting in egotism are struck down by the Messenger of Death with his club.



ij siqguru syvin sy aubry hir syqI ilv lwie ]1]

j sathigur saevan sae oubarae har saethee liv laae ||1||

Those who serve the True Guru are uplifted and saved, in love with the Lord. ||1||



mn ry gurmuiK nwmu iDAwie ]

man rae guramukh naam dhhiaae ||

O mind, become Gurmukh, and meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord.



Duir pUrib krqY iliKAw iqnw gurmiq nwim smwie ]1] rhwau ]

dhhur poorab karathai likhiaa thinaa guramath naam samaae ||1|| rehaao ||

Those who are so pre-destined by the Creator are absorbed into the Naam, through the Guru's Teachings. ||1||Pause||



ivxu siqgur prqIiq n AwveI nwim n lwgo Bwau ]

vin sathigur paratheeth n aavee naam n laago bhaao ||

Without the True Guru, faith does not come, and love for the Naam is not embraced.



supnY suKu n pwveI duK mih svY smwie ]2]

supanai sukh n paavee dhukh mehi savai samaae ||2||

Even in dreams, they find no peace; they sleep immersed in pain. ||2||



jy hir hir kIcY bhuqu locIAY ikrqu n myitAw jwie ]

jae har har keechai bahuth locheeai kirath n maettiaa jaae ||

Even if you chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, with great longing, your past actions are still not erased.



hir kw Bwxw BgqI mMinAw sy Bgq pey dir Qwie ]3]

har kaa bhaanaa bhagathee ma(n)niaa sae bhagath peae dhar thhaae ||3||

The Lord's devotees surrender to His Will; those devotees are accepted at His Door. ||3||



guru sbdu idVwvY rMg isau ibnu ikrpw lieAw n jwie ]

gur sabadh dhirraavai ra(n)g sio bin kirapaa laeiaa n jaae ||

The Guru has lovingly implanted the Word of His Shabad within me. Without His Grace, it cannot be attained.



jy sau AMimRqu nIrIAY BI ibKu Plu lwgY Dwie ]4]

jae so a(n)mrith neereeai bhee bikh fal laagai dhhaae ||4||

Even if the poisonous plant is watered with ambrosial nectar a hundred times, it will still bear poisonous fruit. ||4||



sy jn scy inrmly ijn siqgur nwil ipAwru ]

sae jan sachae niramalae jin sathigur naal piaar ||

Those humble beings who are in love with the True Guru are pure and true.



siqgur kw Bwxw kmwvdy ibKu haumY qij ivkwru ]5]

sathigur kaa bhaanaa kamaavadhae bikh houmai thaj vikaar ||5||

They act in harmony with the Will of the True Guru; they shed the poison of ego and corruption. ||5||



mnhiT ikqY aupwie n CUtIAY isimRiq swsqR soDhu jwie ]

manehat(h) kithai oupaae n shhootteeai simrith saasathr sodhhahu jaae ||

Acting in stubborn-mindedness, no one is saved; go and study the Simritees and the Shaastras.



imil sMgiq swDU aubry gur kw sbdu kmwie ]6]

mil sa(n)gath saadhhoo oubarae gur kaa sabadh kamaae ||6||

Joining the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, and practicing the Shabads of the Guru, you shall be saved. ||6||



hir kw nwmu inDwnu hY ijsu AMqu n pwrwvwru ]

har kaa naam nidhhaan hai jis a(n)th n paaraavaar ||

The Name of the Lord is the Treasure, which has no end or limitation.



gurmuiK syeI sohdy ijn ikrpw kry krqwru ]7]

guramukh saeee sohadhae jin kirapaa karae karathaar ||7||

The Gurmukhs are beauteous; the Creator has blessed them with His Mercy. ||7||



nwnk dwqw eyku hY dUjw Aauru n koie ]

naanak dhaathaa eaek hai dhoojaa aour n koe ||

O Nanak, the One Lord alone is the Giver; there is no other at all.



gur prswdI pweIAY krim prwpiq hoie ]8]2]19]

gur parasaadhee paaeeai karam paraapath hoe ||8||2||19||

By Guru's Grace, He is obtained. By His Mercy, He is found. ||8||2||19||

my first question is that guru je says the even by jappning naam and great longing for vaheguru, our past actions cannot be erased?
two part to this question, first this doesnt make sence to me because guru je has always said by even japping once naam all past actions can be erased
and guru je used ganika stories as examples
but this consfuses me, second part is that i always wondered if vaheguru is the cause of every single thing, and he is the one who makes us act, how can our actions be erased when we ourselves havnt really done anything and are being controlled by one source? now i kno this can get really complex and our minds our not at the avastha to understand such things
my second questions is
do the simrritha and shatras have value, guru je does say go and study them
wa do they contain, if newone knows, and wat does guru je mean by stubornmindness? wud it be thinking i am sikh u r hindu, or my god is great ures is not, im not sure if someone cud shed some light

 



Re: shabad question
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 10, 2008 01:28PM

-----------
my first question is that guru je says the even by jappning naam and great longing for vaheguru, our past actions cannot be erased?
two part to this question, first this doesnt make sence to me because guru je has always said by even japping once naam all past actions can be erased
and guru je used ganika stories as examples
but this consfuses me, second part is that i always wondered if vaheguru is the cause of every single thing, and he is the one who makes us act, how can our actions be erased when we ourselves havnt really done anything and are being controlled by one source? now i kno this can get really complex and our minds our not at the avastha to understand such things
---------

Your questions are a result of wrong translation of Gurbani in English. The pankitis in question are:

--------jy hir hir kIcY bhuqu locIAY ikrqu n myitAw jwie ]
jae har har keechai bahuth locheeai kirath n maettiaa jaae ||
Even if you chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, with great longing, your past actions are still not erased. --------

The translation above is totally wrong. Actually it's a blunder. The correct meaning according to my humble understanding is:

Even if you greatly wish (locheeai) that these manmukh people (mentioned in the previous two pankitis and who don't have good karma of doing bhagti on their forehead) chant the Naam of Lord, (you cannot have them japp Naam because) you cannot erase the karma written on their forehead.

--------------
my second questions is
do the simrritha and shatras have value, guru je does say go and study them
wa do they contain, if newone knows, and wat does guru je mean by stubornmindness? wud it be thinking i am sikh u r hindu, or my god is great ures is not, im not sure if someone cud shed some light
-------------

There is nothing wrong in studying Dharam Granths of other religions but a Sikh keeps his or her faith only on Gurbani. As for what Guru Sahib means by stubbornness, my understanding is that it is referring to the stubbornness in not taking the spiritual message of Naam and shedding maya. It's not about religions but it's about falling in love with Naam and breaking the illusion of maya.

Kulbir Singh

 



Re: shabad question
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 11, 2008 06:54AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹ

khalsa jeeo,

a gursikh recently said to me that although when one is given a(n)mrit, there is ਕਰਮ-ਨਾਸ਼ i.e. past actions are 'destroyed'/negated, this does not mean that the effects of these actions are annihilated.

the gursikh said that this is another reason why we are given naam. satguroo jee's daya is such that we are forgiven for past actions if we japp naam and keep rehit after being given a(n)mrit, however, all the filth of these past actions is also washed away via japping naam.

however, i think this gursikh may be wrong or i may have misunderstood him. this is because many uchaa avastha valae gursikhs have had 'bad things' happen in their lives. if they were 'forgiven' then how can this be?

perhaps we are 'forgiven' in that particular parts of our lekha pertaining to the 'bad things' we have done is erased and will not be read in Dargah therefore we will not be accountable there however, this does not mean we do not have to face the consequences here on planet earth.

the consequences may be lessened as a a result of our bhagtee but there will still be a consequence i.e. we will still have to 'suffer' to some extent although we have been forgiven for actually committing the 'bad thing'. therefore:

- taking a(n)mrit means we are forgiven for the 'bad things' we have done i.e. we will not be accountable for them before Dharam Raee.

- japping naam whilst keeping rehit means that the effects of these 'bad things' upon our minds are cleansed, and we get closer to vaheguroo as this filth leaves our minds. the consequences of these 'bad things' may also be lessened.

is this correct?

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 





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