oothpathangy, sidhu.hcl why u all r so agaist khalistan i dont understand oothpathangy have u ever looked on indian history not just last 50 years but from guru shahib times who were the people who informed mughals about young shahibjades ofcourse gangu bramhin and there r many more examples he was punished by singhs and his dauther was married to banda singh bhadhur they r the people who made changes in our history. if u look into maclaff writings(first person to study about sikhs in white people) he says hindusim is worst enemy sikhs can have and they always wanted to kill sikism like they have killed buddism and jainism from india. u may want to read book called sachi sikhi ay serdar kapoor singh. now about 50 years ago when in india there were votes about who wants punjab as there state and who dont then all your hindus brothers in 1963 voted as there mother tounge was hindi becoz states were made on language based and in fact that time there was no hindi news paper published in punjab yet they wrote hindi as there mother tounge result is in front of u u may be blind to see that size of punjab decreased which could be a lot bigger than what it is now. and these r the people who were giving sweets to military when they attacked akal thakt and not to forget these were the people who were telling how many sikhs r living in there neighbourhood in delhi massrcre dont u c all that fair enought some of them helped us but we have to take into account all what i said and this is just a tip of iceberg u cant imagine how much damage these people have done to us. they burnt the libirary of akal thakht so that coming sikh generation no nothing about history so from now on please access what u saying and do a deep research before u post.
sidhu.hcl please dont bring that land lock thing up have u ever seen a world map in ur life if not then look a lot of countries r there which r land lock i wont waste my time in writing the whole list just 1 example switzerland, denmark and there others hunderds of them enev near india nepal alright so think before u say something i ll suggest u a book which talks about all these issues land location population becoz there r alot of people who just talk like u but not look into facts khalistan di lor koin(why khalisthan is needed)
read it and u ll get all ur anse=wers

The chances of Khalistan?

Raaj Karega Khalsa Akhi Rahe Na Koi

I don't know why Sidhu jee opposes Khalistan. But my reason is that I consider all of the Land of Bharat as my holy land. The following are few of the reason for me to beleive in all of Bharat as my holy land.

-Do a Yatra of India someday and you'll be surpised to see historical Gurdwaras in every corner and every state of India. As much as our Guru travelled in India, they did not travel in any other country as much. India is where they did %90 of the traveling.

-The Bhagats whose banis are contained in Guru Granth Sahib Jee are not from Punjab alone. Most of them are from all over India.

-The 5 Takhts are from all over India connecting all of India as one.

-The original Panj Pyaras were from all over over, again connecting all of India as one in our Sikh Dharmak geography. Only one of the original Panj was from Punjab.

-Guru Gobind Singh Jee's life in itself connects all of India. He was born in Patna(east India). Lived in Punjab(North India), and left his worldly body in Nander(South India).

-When the British took over Punjab, our Sikh forefather fought against the British to free India in the form of various movements like the Kuka movement, Gadhr, Akali.

-Then when India was given its freedom from the British, the Sikhs in the Indian army fought courageously against the Pakistani and Chinese armies, in which thousands of Sikhs soldiers laid down their lives for India.

This is the legecy from which I want to hold on to. Why would I want to throw all this away for 12 districts which is not even Punjab in it's entirety?

We need to increase our numbers by doing massive parchar. We can turn India into a Sikh nation if we want do. Thinking of just 12 districts is thinking Micro, think of the bigger picture.

Being a Gursikh i have very strong feelings towards religion and community. I m never against KHALISTAN , but the approach tht (some)people have taken to achieve khalistan is wrong. By means of terror, threat,Bombs,Killings,voilence nothing can be achieved.

Community had already lost 26,000 (official figure) "young" sikhs to terror during 1990-2000. Those who gave their lives for religion wre in between age grp of 19-30 yrs. This cater created had inturn incurred a loss of more thn 1,00,000 lives in punjab alone. many wre not even married. FUTHER SIKHs ARe BRANDED as terrorists (during the time)

The founder of khalistani ideology S. jagjit singh Chauhan is in INDIA n is fighting for the cause politically. I thinks others shld also follow his path and shld concentrate on other alternate methods to achieve the goal.

Making our population strong and increased can be most possible option in a democratic country.
I will prefer to produce 4-5 sikh children to help the community rather thn getting down to the bullets in the age of 24 for no reason.

lowest sikh can i ask you a question, do you believe congress is hindutva, i think some ppl out their may mislead you

also sikhs are spose to be an influence around the world and were spose to be out making the world better, isolating are selves is wrong.

Also in india sikhs should be declaring war on corruption in punjab and all over india, thats the duty of a sikh

also about drug problem in punjab, the drugs in punjab are different from the past, now its cocain and heroin [www.sikhnet.com]

IM very agree with oothpatang thinking.

Even if we get khalistan after long battle with INDIA and after losing lakhs of our people. I dont think their is any future in a country of 16 districts and 200km length.
Khalistan will be sorrounded by two hostile countries tht will never let khalistan to do use their waters. In punjab the grnd water situation has became worst. Their will be no means of doing business Coz no sea nearby.

the establishment of Five takhts at the different corners of India is a clear symbol Guruji gave to his sikhs.

while coming to the issue raised by mandeep is drug problem in punjab.
Frnd i think this problem persists in punjab right from the begining and heroine and smack is again derivative of Afeem. By proper religious education these evils can be removed eaisly.

the main reason why youth is hooked to drugs is coz they dont have any work to do. Here we people are having only 1-2 children to raise, children have no reason to do hardship. Our youth have became sluggish coz of having no challenges , no suvival targets .
I think we shld all help the community by having 4-5 children at least.

sidhu agree at the part about drug problems being caused by kids being spoiled that is cause of 90% of the drug addictions, but it doesn't mean we need to have more kids it just means we need to stop spoiling are kids, like i said i know family's who are extremely wealthy but know that they need to teach their kids how to work if they want their kids to be successfull and happy, so they get them jobs at ages of 15-16 or get them working at their buisnesses at young ages like 10-11 and get them doing chores at home, also sports is huge.

oothpathang fair enough five takhts are in india and gurus have travelled some parts of india but most of it is punjab and pakistan than in india if u really have studied about sikhs history khalsa rajs capital which was ruled for 63 years(lahore) various other places like birth place of guru nanak and many more are in pakistan and i dont understand why u keep bringing the same thing up in ur every post how will formation of khalistan will affect if someone want to visit all those places u have mentioned they can get visa to india and travel same way we do it now to visit pakistan to go to our relegious places and same way whole world and other religions do as scarest place for chrisitians and jahudis is no in there own country it is jeruselem everyone travel to it and like mecaa for muslims. i really dont get how formation of khalistan will affect sikhs from visiting all the places u mentioned it may be delayed till things ease out with india after fomation of khalistan. and please look to other factors which r more important today jobs for youth in punjab, control of waters electricity india is using punjab as there colony. have u ever given a thought why only in punjab there r so many deras with so many so called gurus, why there r thousands of singers at every inch of punjab, why punjab is so much flooded with drugs alchohol why all this is happening in punjab only why only punjabs underground water is today so toxic why only in punjab why didnt happen in haryana or other neighbouring states its becoz indian government whether congress or any other doesnt matter they want punjabis to get distracted from there real aim there relegion, there country khalistan some get distracted by so called saints mostly women middle aged men by alchohol youth by drugs so hgot us from every end and u still shouting for india. and there r thousands of other reasons as well why dont look on to that aspects punjab still dont hjave rights on his own capital still punjabi speaking areas r not given to punjab why dont u get some jarnail singh jis lectures and many others thousands of it
i ll quote one : when indian army will attack akal tahkt that day will lay the foundaion of khalistan saint jarnail singh ji bhindravale
long live khalistan

mandeep nothing can be achieved if our number is small.

Sikh population is small we shld take initiative to increase it further.
1) without population no KHALISTAN can be achivable.
2) no drug problem can be solved.
3) no independent religious identity can be achieved.
4) no wars can be faught
5) no money can be raised for any cause.

we have very recent examples tht had shown us clearly tht population is one important factor for any religion to grow and prosper.

punjab farmers are producing meal for whole country and they are dying under debt. while in the states like Bihar, UP, delhi , orrisa, maharastra etc. unprecedented growth is happening.
punjab alone contributes to 60% of national needs and wht farmers are getting ?
govt is providing subsidised ration to everyone. and people in other states are earning into Lakhs per month while the resources in punjab are being raped everyday.

there is none in parliament to take up the cause. with having 13 seats punjab is mute in front of parliament.
in india the votes are divided on the basis of population density.

the only solution to every problem wht so ever sikhism is facing is POPULATION.

sidhu paji i understand your concerns, but also consider all farmers across india are starving and dieing and rioting, thats one of the reasons that the marathas attacked migrant workers from bihar and up and are trying to kick them out of maharastra.

Khalistan once again i agree with your earlier post that khalistan wouldn't survive but we don't need population to help achieve khalistan and we don't need khalistan in first place like you mentioned above and i agree with the points you made about that issue

lowest sikh i understand your concerns, but you know their's baba's and gurus in punjab and outside of punjab, their's many gurus that have hindutva groups pissed off cause they believe their taking ppl away from hinduism, the reason the drugs are huge problems in punjab is cause punjab has more money then any other state and in other states you don't have parants spoiling their children like they do in the punjab, plus the drugs like heroin come from pakistan through punjab, are water being poison is cause of us and the use of pesticides and other chemicals during the green revolution and its not only farmers in punjab suffering from this their are farmers suffering across india and in america from this problem. The after effects of pesticides and other chemicals used for farming are being felt now.

Plus their being a new singer every second i don't know what the govt has to do with this, we enjoy the music and buy the cd creating demand i don't think the govt puts a gun to our heads and makes us enjoy the music, and if this is a conspiracy that the govt is using music and bollywood to attack us then you have to think again, right now hindutva groups are attacking bollywood and other forms of entertainment calling it a muslim conspiracy to destroy the moral fabric of india, punjab were concerned about our entertainment industry and across india hindutva groups are concerned about bollywood and the effect its having on youth with hot westernised thier movies have gotton.

lowest sikh as well you might also heard that congress and hindutva are one which is not even close to being the caste

congress is more like a mafia their power hungry and money hungry, and since punjab is the wealthiest state you can see why they have caused so much trouble in punjab and the things they will do to get votes to stay in power, that also explains why indira gandhi brought bhindranwale into politics

hindutva are dangerous they want to create a talibon style hindu india while trying to take india to the top of the world, and modi is already attacking mohnoman singh and many ppl say the attacks are preperation for him to run against mohonaman singh to become prime minister and he's got a good chance to considering he's taking gujarat to top of india and is putting is state at the world stage having the economy grow at 14% a year.

I dont see Shivsena as any threat to Sikhism.
Shivsena is just like another political party struggling for its existance.

Bal Thakery was a cartoonist and He had taken a political priviledge by climbing religious ladder. He spreaded his own way of legacy of threat, fanaticism, hatred etc amoung people to take political milage.

Iqbaal had written "majhab nhi sikhata aapas mein bair rakhna "

Shivsena ideology of working is just reverse to iqbaal, and hatred run more faster thn anything.

In the present condition Shivsena is "lacking of leader" and thus is melting down. Now shivsena wants to cover their face of Hindutava Under a sheet of being MAHARASTRIAN coz they know religion is the natonal cause and they cant win a Vidhansabha election without having local cause.
Their are no takers of RELIGIOUS IDEOLOGY of SHIVSENA and BAJRANG DAL , BJP, VHP anymore in india Coz india is growing and no-one is having enough time to be spent on RAM-MANDIR in Ayodhya. also people have became sick of this.

I think SAD shld also learn a lesson from this and shld start doing some progress and (creating jobs) in PUNJAB rather thn concentrating on taking ploitical milage from Religion.

Mandeep veer ji i think u have taken exxagerated view of the situation of ground water pollution, drug addiction problem , pseutropy, excessive pestisides usuage In Punjab. The situaton isn't tht bad . These situations are being faced by almost every part of INDIA (not punjab alone) and i personaly know situation is much worst in many other states.

Coming to Hindutava style politics I think there are no takers of religious politics anywhere in india (except Guju state) BJP " commonly regarded as religious party " has STOPPED to utter RAM-MANDIR name.

coming to manmohan and modi issue we all know wht reputation manmohan is holding and where modi stands. I dont regard manmohan a Sikh (he is just turban wearer).
In my view if a sikh gives daughter to Hindu or anyother he shld be regarded as tankhaiyaa. Hindu is not a religion its belief.