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ਹੁਕਮਨਾਮਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ - hukamnama sahib : 18/3/08
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 18, 2008 02:50AM

ਸੋਰਠਿਮਹਲਾ੫॥
ਹਮਮੈਲੇਤੁਮਊਜਲਕਰਤੇਹਮਨਿਰਗੁਨਤੂਦਾਤਾ॥
ਹਮਮੂਰਖਤੁਮਚਤੁਰਸਿਆਣੇਤੂਸਰਬਕਲਾਕਾਗਿਆਤਾ॥੧॥
ਮਾਧੋਹਮਐਸੇਤੂਐਸਾ॥
ਹਮਪਾਪੀਤੁਮਪਾਪਖੰਡਨਨੀਕੋਠਾਕੁਰਦੇਸਾ॥
ਰਹਾਉ॥
ਤੁਮਸਭਸਾਜੇਸਾਜਿਨਿਵਾਜੇਜੀਉਪਿੰਡੁਦੇਪ੍ਰਾਨਾ॥
ਨਿਰਗੁਨੀਆਰੇਗੁਨੁਨਹੀਕੋਈਤੁਮਦਾਨੁਦੇਹੁਮਿਹਰਵਾਨਾ॥੨॥
ਤੁਮਕਰਹੁਭਲਾਹਮਭਲੋਨਜਾਨਹਤੁਮਸਦਾਸਦਾਦਇਆਲਾ॥
ਤੁਮਸੁਖਦਾਈਪੁਰਖਬਿਧਾਤੇਤੁਮਰਾਖਹੁਅਪੁਨੇਬਾਲਾ॥੩॥
ਤੁਮਨਿਧਾਨਅਟਲਸੁਲਿਤਾਨਜੀਅਜੰਤਸਭਿਜਾਚੈ॥
ਕਹੁਨਾਨਕਹਮਇਹੈਹਵਾਲਾਰਾਖੁਸੰਤਨਕੈਪਾਛੈ॥੪॥੬॥੧੭॥

[www.panthkhalsa.org]

i'm trying to become consistent when it comes to ucharan of plurals. bindeeaa(n) at the end of plural words is a major factor. today's hukamnama sahib struck me as a good example of being consistent with plurals and looking at a panktee for clues that confirm particular words must be plural terms.

Questions:
- 1st panktee: would ਮੈਲੇ be pronounced with a bindee at the end? i was thinking this because given that the panktee begins with ਹਮ i.e. 'we' and not 'i' (the absence of aunkardh underneath the ਮ confirms this does it not?), this means that ਮੈਲੇ automatically becomes pluralised and refers to 'us filthy humans' and not 'me, a filthy human'. is this correct?

- ਰਹਾਉ panktee isn't numbered; any significance?

- 2nd panktee: ਕਲਾ - this is a plural so again bindee at the end right?

- 5th panktee: ਸਾਜੇ , ਨਿਵਾਜੇ - bindee at the end of these as well given panktee refers to ਸਭ (plural, all)? Something makes me uncertain of this though...

- 6th panktee: ਨਿਰਗੁਨੀਆਰੇ - bindee at the end; referring to 'we/us, who are without virtues'?

- 7th panktee: ਜਾਨਹ - bindee at the end; referring to 'we/us who are unaware'? i think the presence of ਹਮ earlier in the panktee confirms that maharaaj jee is still referring to us all collectively.

- 8th panktee: ਅਪੁਨੇ ਬਾਲਾ - i know that ਬਾਲਾ must be a plural term but what about the ਅਪੁਨੇ? would there be a bindee at the end given we are referring to 'vaheguroo, the one to whom belong MANY x'?

- 9th panktee: ਜੀਅ , ਜਾਚੈ - these would be plural terms right so bindeeaa(n) on the end. although i am sure about ਜਾਚੈ , something makes me uncertain about ਜੀਅ .

- 10th panktee: ਇਹੈ ,ਹਵਾਲਾ , ਕੈ , ਪਾਛੈ - these would all have bindeeaa(n) at the end right...i am unsure about ਹਵਾਲਾ because it seems to refer to 'our state' i.e. a singular. also ਪਾਛੈ which means 'behind' and following behind' in this case right?..does this have a bindee at the end?

ਵੀਰ ਕੁਲਬੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ, can you talk about this last word and explain the make up of it, the lack of an aunkardh and how this could affect the meaning of the word, whether despite any viyakarN based reasons it may need to be pronounced with a bindee anyway, if this is the case. there are many words i read when blessed with paath that, only according to my instinct, seem to fall into this category of word, whatever that category is, and i am uncertain whether to add bindeeaa(n) at the end when doing ucharan.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: ਹੁਕਮਨਾਮਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ - hukamnama sahib : 18/3/08
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 18, 2008 07:37AM

-----------
1st panktee: would ਮੈਲੇ be pronounced with a bindee at the end? i was thinking this because given that the panktee begins with ਹਮ i.e. 'we' and not 'i' (the absence of aunkardh underneath the ਮ confirms this does it not?), this means that ਮੈਲੇ automatically becomes pluralised and refers to 'us filthy humans' and not 'me, a filthy human'. is this correct?
-----------


Maile should not be pronounced with a bindi in the end.


----------
- ਰਹਾਉ panktee isn't numbered; any significance?
-------

It should be numbered. It is probably a typo.


--------
- 2nd panktee: ਕਲਾ - this is a plural so again bindee at the end right?
--------

Yes in my opinion it's a plural and should be pronounced nasal because of presence of 'ka' in the end.


----------
- 5th panktee: ਸਾਜੇ , ਨਿਵਾਜੇ - bindee at the end of these as well given panktee refers to ਸਭ (plural, all)? Something makes me uncertain of this though...
---------

No bindi on laam of saaje and nivaaze but ਨਿਵਾਜੇ should be pronounced as 'nivaaze' i.e. z instead of j.


--------
- 6th panktee: ਨਿਰਗੁਨੀਆਰੇ - bindee at the end; referring to 'we/us, who are without virtues'?
--------

No bindi here.


--------
- 7th panktee: ਜਾਨਹ - bindee at the end; referring to 'we/us who are unaware'? i think the presence of ਹਮ earlier in the panktee confirms that maharaaj jee is still referring to us all collectively.
----------

That is correct. The sound is nasal for jaanhe.

--------
- 8th panktee: ਅਪੁਨੇ ਬਾਲਾ - i know that ਬਾਲਾ must be a plural term but what about the ਅਪੁਨੇ? would there be a bindee at the end given we are referring to 'vaheguroo, the one to whom belong MANY x'?
--------

Baala is plural but the sound is not nasal i.e. no bindi.


-----------
- 9th panktee: ਜੀਅ , ਜਾਚੈ - these would be plural terms right so bindeeaa(n) on the end. although i am sure about ਜਾਚੈ , something makes me uncertain about ਜੀਅ .
---------

jaachae should have a bindi in the end.


---------
- 10th panktee: ਇਹੈ ,ਹਵਾਲਾ , ਕੈ , ਪਾਛੈ - these would all have bindeeaa(n) at the end right...i am unsure about ਹਵਾਲਾ because it seems to refer to 'our state' i.e. a singular. also ਪਾਛੈ which means 'behind' and following behind' in this case right?..does this have a bindee at the end?
--------

None of the above 4 words should have bindi in the end.


--------
ਵੀਰ ਕੁਲਬੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ, can you talk about this last word and explain the make up of it, the lack of an aunkardh and how this could affect the meaning of the word, whether despite any viyakarN based reasons it may need to be pronounced with a bindee anyway, if this is the case. there are many words i read when blessed with paath that, only according to my instinct, seem to fall into this category of word, whatever that category is, and i am uncertain whether to add bindeeaa(n) at the end when doing ucharan.
--------

Which word are you referring to Singh jee.


Kulbir Singh

 



Re: ਹੁਕਮਨਾਮਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ - hukamnama sahib : 18/3/08
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 18, 2008 09:46AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹ

veer jee,

i was referring to ਪਾਛੈ. i've just re-read what i wrote and it's very confusing!

re: ਬਾਲਾ - how do you now which words are plurals, end with kanna and are not nasalised at the end? is it a case of remembering them all or is their a rule?

veer jee, could i request a big favour. i need to find out the english equivalents of the various grammatical categories/terms/sub-terms which are relevant and have their exact counterparts when it comes to viyakarN.

for instance:

noun
pro-noun
verb
ad-verb

this way, when i read the books i have on viyakarN and am presented with list of gurbaaNee words and examples, i will know what type of grammatical concept/construct they are referring to.

at the moment, i do not know what the various gurbaaNee grammatical terms actually mean. if someone were to say that the english equivalent x gurbaaNee viyakarN term is y in terms of English grammar, i think this would speed up my learning and help me make more sense of the lists of words given as examples.

i'm one of those people that finds it hard to remember 'lists of things'. i have to really understand the underlying concept and principles governing things, and then i can apply rules.

ps - when you get a chance, pls email me any worksheets, syllabus docs, electronic docs re: viyakarN that you have. i only got to attend the first viyakarN class at Khalsa Camp when you presented the topic during the week.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: ਹੁਕਮਨਾਮਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ - hukamnama sahib : 18/3/08
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 18, 2008 10:45AM

Veer Atma Singh jeeo,

-------
re: ਬਾਲਾ - how do you now which words are plurals, end with kanna and are not nasalised at the end? is it a case of remembering them all or is their a rule?
-------

I will write a post on this, in the near future. Please remind me if I don't do so in a week.

Kulbir Singh

 





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