ਰਹਿਣੀਰਹੈਸੋਈਸਿਖਮੇਰਾ॥ ਓੁਹਸਾਹਿਬਮੈਉਸਕਾਚੇਰਾ॥

Akal Purakh Kee Rachha Hamnai, SarbLoh Dee Racchia Hamanai


    View Post Listing    |    Search    
Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2



Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: Bijla Singh (IP Logged)
Date: July 30, 2008 03:58PM

In Sant Padd Nirnay Bhai Randhir Singh Ji states that wherever upma of “Sant” is done in Gurbani it pertains to Guru Sahib only and not to any human being. He writes that upma of Sant in Sukhmani is of Guru Raamdas Ji. If this is true then why are some words plural in that Astpaddi? Is it because of a form of respect like we sometimes refer to an individual in plural form i.e. “santan da koee jawab nahi”? Which viyakaran rule determines that the word is singular but used in plural form? Here are some panktees:

sa(n)th dhokhee kaa thhaao ko naahi || naanak sa(n)th bhaavai thaa oue bhee gath paahi ||2||

In both panktees, Prof. Sahib Singh translated the word “Sant” as plural but previous panktees are translated in singular form. Why isn’t there consistency? If Sant is being referred to in singular form then why change to plural in the same Shabad? English translation is the total opposite.

Last line of Pauri 3 is also translated in plural form but not the other panktees. And last line of 4th pauri is in singular form. Why? Both lines are very similar and context is also the same. But why is one word translated as singular and other as plural?

sa(n)th kaa dhokhee bigarr roop hoe jaae ||

Above panktee is from pauri 7 and word is translated as plural. Why?

Please do some veechar on this and explain viyakaran rules that apply to these panktees. There are other questions in Sukhmani Sahib but I will post later. Guru Rakha

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: Anonymous User (IP Logged)
Date: July 31, 2008 02:06AM

Gurfateh
Well when we are salvaged while being alive,that is the stage of Sant,and that is Khalsa.

In the form of Dalpanth twelevth form of Guru(as per Shri Sarbolho Granth Sahib Ji) Khalsa is alive and kicking.

So a Sikh with jiwan mukt stage could be termed as Sant.Das will give a few instances of people nearer to the Sant in AKJ ie Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh Ji,Bhai Fauja Singh,Gyani Amolak Singh,Bhai Rama Singh,Bhai J. S. talwara among others.

Kindly rectify,if dass is wrong.

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: July 31, 2008 07:14AM

Bijla Singh jeeo,

-----------
In Sant Padd Nirnay Bhai Randhir Singh Ji states that wherever upma of “Sant” is done in Gurbani it pertains to Guru Sahib only and not to any human being. He writes that upma of Sant in Sukhmani is of Guru Raamdas Ji. If this is true then why are some words plural in that Astpaddi? Is it because of a form of respect like we sometimes refer to an individual in plural form i.e. “santan da koee jawab nahi”? Which viyakaran rule determines that the word is singular but used in plural form? Here are some panktees:
----------

There is not a particular form of viyakaran that will tell us whether the plural word used is for singular being or more than one person. Bibek Budh would come in handy hereh. As an example, if a plural word is used for Guru Sahib or Vaheguru, we automatically know that this plural word is used for them out of respect, since there is one Vaheguru and one Satguru.

Similarly, if the greatness of Sant is described to the level of Guru Sahib, we can safely assume that it is for Guru Sahib and on the other hand if there is an updesh (hukam) being given to ‘sant’ then ‘sant’ here would mean a Gursikh.

If a pankiti is talking about ‘Sant’ giving Naam, then we know that this word here is used for Guru Sahib and not for a Brahmgyani Gursikh because giving Naam is the prerogative of Guru Sahib only. In many cases, Bibek Budh would prevail.



-----------
sa(n)th dhokhee kaa thhaao ko naahi || naanak sa(n)th bhaavai thaa oue bhee gath paahi ||2||

In both panktees, Prof. Sahib Singh translated the word “Sant” as plural but previous panktees are translated in singular form. Why isn’t there consistency? If Sant is being referred to in singular form then why change to plural in the same Shabad? English translation is the total opposite.
----------

ਸੰਤ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਾ ਥਾਉ ਕੋ ਨਾਹਿ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਓਇ ਭੀ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਹਿ ॥੨॥


The word ਸੰਤ in the above pankitis is definitely a singular noun. I am not sure why Professor Sahib has done in the meanings in plural. If you look at 2nd, 3rd and 5th pankitis of this pauri, the word ਸੰਤਨ there is plural but Professor Sahib has done the meanings in singular. I am not sure why he has done the meanings this way. It could have been an innocent oversight.

As for using plural form and singular form in the same shabad, it is quite common in Gurbani to do so. Please ponder upon the following pauri 8 of 17th ashtpadi of Siri Sukhmani Sahib:

ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਓਟ ਲੇਹਿ ॥
ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਅਪਨਾ ਤਿਨ ਜਨ ਦੇਹਿ ॥
ਜਿਨਿ ਜਨਿ ਅਪਨਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਪਛਾਤਾ ॥
ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਸਰਬ ਥੋਕ ਕਾ ਦਾਤਾ ॥
ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਸਰਨਿ ਸਰਬ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਵਹਿ ॥
ਤਿਸ ਕੈ ਦਰਸਿ ਸਭ ਪਾਪ ਮਿਟਾਵਹਿ ॥
ਅਵਰ ਸਿਆਨਪ ਸਗਲੀ ਛਾਡੁ ॥
ਤਿਸੁ ਜਨ ਕੀ ਤੂ ਸੇਵਾ ਲਾਗੁ ॥
ਆਵਨੁ ਜਾਨੁ ਨ ਹੋਵੀ ਤੇਰਾ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੁ ਜਨ ਕੇ ਪੂਜਹੁ ਸਦ ਪੈਰਾ ॥8॥17॥


In the first two pankitis the Guru Sahib is instructing us to take refuge in those and to give our mind and body to those Jan. But in the next 8 pankitis, instead of ‘ਤਿਨ’, ‘ਜਿਨਿ’ has been used. ‘ਤਿਨ’ is a pronoun for plural noun where as ‘ਜਿਨਿ’ is for singular. There are several such examples, where singular and plural nouns for same individual are used. While conversing we sometimes, inadvertently, switch between singular and plural forms when talking about the same person.


--------
Last line of Pauri 3 is also translated in plural form but not the other panktees.
--------

ਸੰਤ ਕੀ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਦੋਖ ਮਹਿ ਦੋਖੁ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਉਸ ਕਾ ਭੀ ਹੋਇ ਮੋਖੁ ॥੩॥


Here too the word ਸੰਤ should be interpreted as singular and not plural.


-------
And last line of 4th pauri is in singular form. Why? Both lines are very similar and context is also the same. But why is one word translated as singular and other as plural?
--------

The last two pankiti of 4th pauri are:

ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਉ ਨਾਹੀ ਠਾਉ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਲਏ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥੪॥

There is no difference between ‘ਸੰਤ’ of last pankiti of 3rd pauri and last pankiti of 4th pauri, yet, Professor Sahib Singh jee has interpreted this word as plural in 3rd pauri and as singular in 4th pauri. It is either spelling mistake or an innocent oversight on part of Professor Sahib Singh jee.


-----------
sa(n)th kaa dhokhee bigarr roop hoe jaae ||

Above panktee is from pauri 7 and word is translated as plural. Why?
----------

In this pankiti again the word ‘Sant’ is singular. I don’t know why they have translated it as a plural noun.


--------
There are other questions in Sukhmani Sahib but I will post later. Guru Rakha
--------

You are very welcome to bring them aboard.

Baani is Agam Agaadh Bodh. May Guru Sahib forgive our mistakes while doing vichaar of Gurbani.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: Bijla Singh (IP Logged)
Date: July 31, 2008 02:26PM

So the conclusion is that the word "sant" in 13th Aastpaddi is singular form and hence used for Guru Sahib.

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 01, 2008 01:43AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

khalsa jeeo,

the beginning of shabad hazaarae is perhaps the classic example of the word ਸੰਤ clearly being singular and being used to refer to siree guroo sahib jee:

---

maajh mehlaa panjvaa(n) choupadae ghar pehlaa

meraa man lochai gur darshan taaee
bilup karae , chaatrik kee niaiee

trikhaa na outrai ; shaa(n)t na aavai ; bin darshan ਸੰਤ piarae jeeo (1)
hou(n) gholee jeeo ghol gumaaee , gur darshan ਸੰਤ piarae jeeo (1) Rahao

---

there is no way on earth that anyone could interpret the above as referring to anyone but siree guroo sahib jee.

ps - veer kulbeer singh jee, some q's:

- maajh - should we always pronounce this word as maajh or maa(n)jh i.e. with nasalisation on the kanaa? when should and shouldn't we? i may have asked u this before but my memory is seriously bad so pls forgive me.

- panjvaa / or panjvaa(n) - i may also have asked you this before lol. i currently always say panjvaa(n) but wanted to double check if this is ok.

sorry to hijack the thread khalsa jeeo.

dhanvaad.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 01, 2008 07:35AM

Quote:
- maajh - should we always pronounce this word as maajh or maa(n)jh i.e. with nasalisation on the kanaa? when should and shouldn't we? i may have asked u this before but my memory is seriously bad so pls forgive me.

The heading of Baramaha in this raag, already contains the bindi on kanna for nasal sound. From this we can take lead that elsewhere too, this word should be pronounced nasal on kanna.


Quote:
- panjvaa / or panjvaa(n) - i may also have asked you this before lol. i currently always say panjvaa(n) but wanted to double check if this is ok.

Nasal sound on kanna is correct, as per my meagre understanding.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 01, 2008 07:41AM

Quote:
So the conclusion is that the word "sant" in 13th Aastpaddi is singular form and hence used for Guru Sahib.

This ashtpadi definitely seems to be for Guru Sahib only. The reason for it is the presence of pankitis like listed below:

ਸੰਤ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਜੇ ਕਰੈ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤਸੰਗਿ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਭੀ ਤਰੈ ॥1॥


ਸੰਤ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਾ ਥਾਉ ਕੋ ਨਾਹਿ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਓਇ ਭੀ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਹਿ ॥2॥



ਸੰਤ ਕੀ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਦੋਖ ਮਹਿ ਦੋਖੁ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਉਸ ਕਾ ਭੀ ਹੋਇ ਮੋਖੁ ॥3॥



ਸੰਤ ਕੇ ਦੋਖੀ ਕਉ ਨਾਹੀ ਠਾਉ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਲਏ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥4॥

These are the last two pankitis of first four pauris of this 13th ashtpadi of Siri Sukhmani Sahib. The last pankiti states such power or greatness of Sant that only the Guru can have, and no Sikh can. The power to grant Mukti or the power to enable the jeev to meet Vaheguru lies with Guru Sant only.

Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: Bijla Singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 01, 2008 09:36AM

Also the main Saloak is enoguh to explain whom "Sant" refers to:

sa(n)th saran jo jan parai so jan oudhharanehaar ||

sMq kI inMdw nwnkw bhuir bhuir Avqwr ]1]

Whoever goes in sharan of Sant gets muktee and only Guru Sahib can give muktee. Hence, Guru Sahib is called Sant. Guru Arjan Dev Ji refers to Guru Raamdas Ji as Sant in Shabad Hazaray in the same manner. So no doubt 5th Nanak is praising Guru Raamdas Ji.

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 01, 2008 12:39PM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

veer kulbir singh jee,

given we're on the subject of sukhmanee sahib, one more q (for now!):

- the word that appears 'sun' as in 'sun samadh' - i have almost always pronounced this as 'shun' because after seeing the meaning (void, nothingness), i feel that siree guroo sahib jee is using a derivative of the word 'shunniya', closely attached to the buddhist tradition, to describe vaheguroo as the 'primordial being'. therefore i pronounce the sassa with vishesh dhunee.

what do you think?

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: khalistan_zindabaad (IP Logged)
Date: August 02, 2008 03:20PM

how about this pangti then?

iesu jug mih ko ivrlw bRhm igAwnI ij haumY myit smwey ]








Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2008 09:02AM by admin.

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: mpsingh86 (IP Logged)
Date: August 03, 2008 12:19AM

Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh,

Sant means--->Se + Ant(in Punjabi) which means who disolve themselves in Beant(Be+Ant)(in punjabi). Beant is Guru himself(Akal Purakh) whereas Sants are like Bhai GUrdas ji, Baba Buddha ji, Bhai Randheer Singh ji,and so on.

Guru and his BHagats and Sants become ONE. Even True, Pure sant has the Capacity to Give Naam and Muktee because in Japji Sahib sants are Panch Parvaan, Panch Pardaan, Panche pave darge maan.(Like Panchayat System).

But Sants don't give Naam bcz Hukam Rajai Chalana Nanak Likhya Naal. Sants Follow Hukam of Guru. They accept the will of God. They are Gurmukhs.

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 05, 2008 07:36AM

Quote:
Guru and his BHagats and Sants become ONE. Even True, Pure sant has the Capacity to Give Naam and Muktee because in Japji Sahib sants are Panch Parvaan, Panch Pardaan, Panche pave darge maan.(Like Panchayat System).

I humbly submit that according to Gurmat and as per writing of Gursikhs like Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee, giving Naam and mukti is the prerogative of Guru Sahib alone. Please refer to Gurbani pankitis like:

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਮਨਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਪੁ ਰਖਿਓਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ ॥

It is clear from the last pankiti that Vaheguru has placed himself in Satguru. Therefore he is accessible only through Guru. The first two pankiti above, make it clear that Vaheguru is attainable only and only through the Satguru.

Those individuals who through Satguru attain Vaheguru are called Gurmukh-Bhagats or Gurmukh Sants. They themselves are at the mercy of Satguru. After attaining their beloved Pritam Pyara - Vaheguru, they say out pankitis like

ਹਮਰੈ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਦਾਗੁ ਦਗਾਨਾ ਹਮ ਕਰਜ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਹੁ ਸਾਢੇ ॥
ਪਰਉਪਕਾਰੁ ਪੁੰਨੁ ਬਹੁ ਕੀਆ ਭਉ ਦੁਤਰੁ ਤਾਰਿ ਪਰਾਢੇ ॥2॥

They say out in bairaag (as per first pankiti above) that they are totally under the debt of Guru (for having them meet with Vaheguru).

There are several pankitis in Gurbani that tell us about the greatness of Guru Sahib. In the charan kamal of Guru Sahib, there are numerous Baba Deep Singh jees, Baba Buddha Sahib jees, Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jees and other such Gursikhs. None of these Gursikhs have ever claimed to be Guru or tried to imitate Guru Sahib. They never gave Naam because they knew that it was the right of Guru Sahib alone to do so. They have been doing sewa in Punj Pyaare to give Naam but they never did it alone. What is the point of Amrit Sinchaar if Naam is to be given by a Sant?

Sant Gursikhs are one with Guru Sahib but this does not mean that they step into the teritory of the Satguru and start acting like Satguru. True Gursikh-Sants forever remain Gursikhs and never try to imitate the Satguru. Those who do imitate the Satguru are not Sants but pakhandis.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: mpsingh86 (IP Logged)
Date: August 07, 2008 07:33AM

Mr Kulbir SIngh JI!

What if today guru Gobind Singh ji come in front of you and tell,' I am guru GObind singh ji'. would you believe it. or do u think Guru Gobind Singh Ji will still come on his Neela Horse or use modern transport.

it is the belief of the Sikh that places faith on Guru Sahibs.

Remember the quotes of Ardas'Chaude Jaame Satgur Hove, Satar Bhagata Dhar, Chaurasi Jame Pehr Ke Kalyug Karo Udhar'.

Secondly, Before giving Gurugadi to Guru Angad Dev Ji. Who knew Guru Angad Sahib ji in the world. No one!!. then Why Guru Nanak Dev is consisdering himself SOil of Saints and Running Behind Saints to Get Naam??????. Guru Nanak Dev Ji COnsisdered Himself Mastana in GUrbani. Then Why there is so much Upma of Saints in Sukhmani Sahib.

WHy Guru Arjun Dev Ji telling,' Hum Santan Ki Ren Pyare, Hum Santan Ki Sarna'

Sants do have full power to give Naam but they Place Guru First.

Ultimately- 'Sants are Vicholas to help the HUman To meet Guru' and Guru Ultimately Send the HUman to Akal Purkh(AKal Ustat).

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 07, 2008 12:14PM

mpsingh86 jee,

Quote:
Remember the quotes of Ardas'Chaude Jaame Satgur Hove, Satar Bhagata Dhar, Chaurasi Jame Pehr Ke Kalyug Karo Udhar'.

The above is Kooka propaganda and not according to Sikhi. Sikhi does not believe in 14 gurus as referred in the above quote but in 10 Guru Sahibaan. Siri Guru Granth Sahib is the eternal Guru of Sikhs after Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee. I don't know how you got the number 14 for Gurus.

It seems that you have not read the whole thread about use of the word 'Sant' in Gurbani.

Quote:
Secondly, Before giving Gurugadi to Guru Angad Dev Ji. Who knew Guru Angad Sahib ji in the world. No one!!. then Why Guru Nanak Dev is consisdering himself SOil of Saints and Running Behind Saints to Get Naam??????. Guru Nanak Dev Ji COnsisdered Himself Mastana in GUrbani. Then Why there is so much Upma of Saints in Sukhmani Sahib.

Guru Nanak Dev jee is teaching us to go after Sant Guru to obtain Naam and to go after Sant Gursikhs to japp Naam in their company. These are two different things. Now a days, when there can be no dehdhaari Guru (Guru with human body), Naam is attained at Amrit Sinchaar ceremony from Punj Pyaare. Then one should seek the company of Sant Gursikhs i.e. rehitvaan Gursikhs to japp Naam in their company.

I don't know what you are trying to imply by saying that Guru Nanak Dev jee is considering himself Mastana in Gurbani.


Quote:
Sants do have full power to give Naam but they Place Guru First.

Prove through Gurbani that Gursikh-Sants have power or authority to give Naam. The word Sant is used for both Gursikhs and Guru Sahib. At places where this word is a singular noun and at some places out of respect where this word is used as a plural noun, it is used for Guru Sahib. At places where instructions or updesh is addressed to sants, this word then means Gursikhs.

Innocent and gullible people of Punjab must break out of bonds of Gurudoms like Kookas, Radhasoamis, Sacha Sauda and Divya Jyoti Jagran etc and come to the Sharan of the true Guru - Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee - by accepting amrit. This is the only way to life - eternal life.

Kulbir Singh

 



bump
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 08, 2008 03:40AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

veer kulbir singh jee,

given we're on the subject of sukhmanee sahib, one more q (for now!):

- the word that appears 'sun' as in 'sun samadh' - i have almost always pronounced this as 'shun' because after seeing the meaning (void, nothingness), i feel that siree guroo sahib jee is using a derivative of the word 'shunniya', closely attached to the buddhist tradition, to describe vaheguroo as the 'primordial being'. therefore i pronounce the sassa with vishesh dhunee.

what do you think?

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 08, 2008 06:38AM

Quote:
- the word that appears 'sun' as in 'sun samadh' - i have almost always pronounced this as 'shun' because after seeing the meaning (void, nothingness), i feel that siree guroo sahib jee is using a derivative of the word 'shunniya', closely attached to the buddhist tradition, to describe vaheguroo as the 'primordial being'. therefore i pronounce the sassa with vishesh dhunee.

No doubt, the word sunn used in Gurbani has its roots in "shunya" the sanskrit word for nothingness but this word has been punjabized and is pronounced without the vishesh dhuni on sassa. But if you feel close to the word using the vishesh dhuni on sassa, it is not wrong to do so.

There are some words that can be pronounced both with vishesh dhuni and without vishesh dhuni. Another such word is Sobha or Shobha. Those close to Hindi or with Hindi or Sanskrit background pronounce it Shobha but in Punjabi this word has taken its root as Sobha. Some even name their children Sobha Singh. So in this case, when a foreign word fully becomes part of your mother tongue in Tattbhav form, then it can be pronounced in the new form. Another word is Seetal and Sheetal. I personally pronounce these words with vishesh dhuni i.e. shobha and Sheetal but I know informed Gursikhs who pronounce these words as Sobha and Seetal. I feel they are not wrong in doing so. Having said that, other words like Shanti and shabad etc. cannot be pronounced without vishesh dhuni because their Punjabi forms too are Shanti (not santi) and Shabad (not sabad).

The above is my meagre understanding. I could be wrong.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: Aadsach (IP Logged)
Date: August 08, 2008 01:49PM

Vjkk Vjkf,

Instead of posting controversial stuff, maybe if you mediatated on the pankiti you have trouble interpretating maybe you would get the meaning.

I cant ever imagine sant baba Nand singh ji wasting time on a forum discussing this kind of stuff.
"Satguru Seti Ratia Dargeh Paaiai Thhaon - Unless one sails in Guru consciousness, unless one is totally possessed by Guru consciousness, unless a sikh's love and his own separate individuality has totally melted into the lotus feet of the Satguru, he cannot claim to have grasped the essence of this holy hymn".
bhul chuk mafi,

Vjkk Vjkf

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: mpsingh86 (IP Logged)
Date: August 09, 2008 12:37AM

Mr. Kulbeer SIngh JI. U asked to prove it through GUrbani. Please Dwell upon It.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji itself telling:-

ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਰਸਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਭਣਾ ॥

ਸੰਤ ਸਭਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਧੇਣੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਸੰਤਾ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਰਹੈ ਜਪਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਸੰਤ ਸਭਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਊਪਜੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮ ਅਧਾਰੁ ॥੪॥

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: August 09, 2008 05:43AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

veer 'mpsingh86',

even someone like me, with not even a millionth of the gurmat-based knowledge of the some of the gursikhs on this forum,can sum-up the above easily:

maharaaj jee is doing ustat of the sangat, where the true gurmukh-sants are revealed in all their non-attention seeking glory. these sant-gurmukhs do not attract attention to themselves as sukhmanee sahib declares elsewhere.

ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਰਸਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਭਣਾ ॥

ਸੰਤਾ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਰਹੈ ਜਪਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
- by japping naam with gurmukh piayare gursikhs, naam comes easier and has more effect because maharaaj jee blesses the gathering of gursikhs massively because as far as maharaaj jee are concerned, They are His satguroo as declared many times. this is why many gursikhs do matha tek to sangat, parkarma of sangat etc. but would never do so to an individual.

ਸੰਤ ਸਭਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਧੇਣੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
- so great is the phal (of the sant sabha, the gathering/collective of gurmukh-sants) that one cannot get mukhtee without such sangat. gurbaaNee declares that without the jewel-like sangat, no-one can achieve milaap with vaheguroo. one must come to the sangat and do their seva if one wants to receive siree guroo sahib jee's nadar i.e. mukhtee.

ਸੰਤ ਸਭਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਊਪਜੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮ ਅਧਾਰੁ ॥੪॥
- veer jee, the problem here is that like many today, you believe the word 'gurmukh' is referring to 'sikhs' and 'sant' is referring to the one whom such 'sikhs' should follow, in particular. again this panktee is doing ustat of gurmukh-sant sangat i.e. sadh-sangat, sat-sangat, gur-sangat etc.

the khalsa panth is currently carrying a lot of dead-wood i.e. people who really don't have an interest re: milaap with vaheguroo and following dasmesh pita jee's hukams. hence, the state of the sangat is in major dehndee-kalaa. as a direct result, there are not many places where someone can enjoy sadh-sangat and so the piyaas to run after pakhandees, attention-seekers, ego-maniacs has grown amongst much of the dead-wood. sadly, even many sincere gursikhs lose their bibek-budhee when they begin to equate a gursikh or a pakhandee with siree guroo sahib jee.

i am forever indebted to panth-rattan bhai sahib raNdheer singh and many of those whom he associated with and vice-versa. they have helped this moorakh at least begin to understand what sadh/sant/sat-sangat is. perhaps one day i may truly begin to know the worth of such gurmat sangat - that would truly be kirpaa.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: Sant in Sukhmani Sahib
Posted by: Navjot Kaur (IP Logged)
Date: August 23, 2008 01:45PM

Then how do we translate the following tuk if "sant" word is only used for Guru Saheb.

ਸੰਤ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦ ਕੀ ਪੈਜ ਜਿਨਿ ਰਾਖੀ ਹਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਨਖ ਬਿਦਿਰਓ ॥੩॥

I do agree with the fact that Guru Saheb is Sant but also can't deny that a Sant is a Gurmukh who becomes one with Guru Saheb.

 
Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2





© 2007-2017 Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib