Wjkk Wjkf

i was just wondering wheteher an amritdhari lady can remove some hairs from her chin only in particular,beacuase men have beard and as they grow on women they look very odd, and they get only about 4-5 hairs and they're pretty long making it look very strange. i know that amritdhari are not allowedto to cut their hair but when it grows on a ladys chin are is it ok or not??
plz reply to this question as it has puzzled a couple of people.
thank you

wjkkwjkf

No. Hair removal is not allowed. Anywhere. Ever.

Its still WRONG! If a amritdhari woman does that she has turned her back on Guru Ji, committed a sin and broken her amrit; making her no more an amritdhari, no more a SIKH.

You people are stupid, you see beauty in the sinners who cut their hair but see ugliness in those who follow Guru Ji. Go and marry those dumb models and actresses you so much love. The ones who are really ugly, dogs and beasts.

You think Guru Ji gave this rehit to only men to follow strictly but lightly for women? You're spiritually blind that is why you see a difference between women and men. Also, lust makes people think like this. The mind makes people think like this because it has more control over the soul whereas your soul sees only goodness and truth, which people don't have access to.

Let me ask you a question - Is God perfect? of course. Does he make mistakes? no. Did he make a mistake when he made these ladies? no.

but by wanting to cut off the hair that God placed on your chin you are saying that God made a mistake and that your own way of thinking is higher. we must accept his hukum and that includes accepting our kesh as is. So, no it's not ok to cut off bhaji.

WJKK WJKF

I'm not trying to have a go at anyone here, but I think sometimes people are going overboard in their views without considering the circumstances. If you can keep your hair intact that is excellent, but people need to understand that not everyone can keep their hair **perfectly** intact. There are some people in this world who suffer from various diseases that makes keeping hair everywhere impossible. For example, if a singh suffers from stroke and his moustache falls constantly in his mouth, what then? What about "Ape Boy" (i apologise i don't know his real name), the Mexican boy who has hair covering his whole face? Heres the link for a picture of ape boy:



A question I'd like to ask sangatji is if person like ape-boy was born into a gursikh family, how would you deal with it, would you permit him to cut hair? Is ape-boy a manmukh for cutting his hair? Now for the most controversial question, if ape-boy wanted to take amrit and grew his head hair, would the punj pyare let him take amrit and at the same time trim hair from his body out of medical necessity?

Now, if we say that hair removal is NEVER allowed in ANY place under ANY circumstances, that implies that our religion is NOT universal in that ape-boy CANNOT be a sikh even if he wants to. What does sangatji think about this?

God does make us perfect but that does not mean we should take things to such an extreme that we can't even live a grishti jeevan. God gives us teeth that grow a particular way, but still people need to get their wisdom teeth removed or get fillings, braces and so forth. In the same way, i think that we should strive to keep our hair as best we can but realise that in some circumstances / areas it is not practical. What is most important, in my opinion, is that the sikh appearance is preserved. After sikh appearance, a person should focus on leading a life in accordance with gurbani - seva, paat, simran.

Finally, I'd like to share my personal bias/example to this post in that I too suffer from excessive hair as a man. I grew may hair 6 years back after shaving etc and I strived to keep everything. Unfortunately, i have hair that grows out of my nose, (and on it lol) that was causing me to have severe allergic reactions. My nose hair was causing me great irritation and I would sneeze non-stop. I couldn't even do my part without sneezing everywhere. So I made the decision to cut my nose hair and I think, given my circumstances, it was a prudent decision.

So in closing, I think the current maryada which was made way back does not give due consideration to people like ape-boy, myself and others who suffer from excessive hair. Perhaps akal-takht needs to make rules on what is acceptable in these circumstances??

Please forgive me for any wrongdoings but I think some clear answers are needed in this area...
looking forward to sangats replies :)

WJKK WJKF



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 06:36AM by admin.

Sikhs only live to please Guru Ji and God, not our minds, or humans. This human body is not ours, it is Gods. A temporary body only until this dream ends. We are only guests here and as a guest we have to accept the pain we get, from karma, which saints such as bhai taru singh accepted even though he endured the worse then what you've mentioned.

This is God's world not ours; his Will and Order not ours.

'So in closing, I think the current maryada which was made way back does not give due consideration to people like ape-boy, myself and others who suffer from excessive hair. Perhaps akal-takht needs to make rules on what is acceptable in these circumstances??'

What, listen to your filthy mind, or anyone else's filthy mind. The filthy mind that has been born so many times and has only earned more filth from Pride, Maya and sin.

The akaal Tahkat is not higher then God's unchanging Will and Guru Ji's unchanging Hukam. The akaal tahkat is run by man, and man cannot change God's law.

Fateh,
I fully agree with the point that no one is allowed to remove from any part of body, whether a man or woman. I also understand that it a great sin and it is against rehat. Those wo are in really chardikala, for them it does not matter. But for some poor people like me may be tempeted and may request our own wife to pluck out hair from chin and ask for appology from guru Ji.
Here I would like to give logic. We all know that these changes happen in body due to harmonic immbalace in the body.
I need logic for a treatment of a lady, who is not able to feed milk for a newly born child, because due to harmonic immbalance, she is not able to create milk for the child at all.
If that lady contact a doctor for harmonic treatment so that she can create sufficient milk to feed a child. Will it be a sin again. Or we must follow guru Ka bhana.
I know somne people may get annoyed with this logic.
Sorry for that.
Bhool Chook Muaf

it's perfectly ok to get treatment for medical conditions. But the fact remains that Guru ji gave Hukum to us to keep kesh.

Humans dont know who they are or what they are, the whole cosmetic industry n ideals of keeping hair or not are all sprung from not accepting yourself.

WJKK WJKF

Like many on this forum, I have great respect for our great gursikhs including Bhai sahib randheer singh. However I find something he has said (according to an english translation) to be wrong. The article I read is "Importance of hair - discussion with Mr Gupta & Bhai Randheer Singh". The link for the article (doc format) is:

[www.yorkssa.com]

In the article, Bhai Sahib states:
"Women do not grow any beard on their faces. If any woman wants, she cannot. Just as it is unnatural to try to develop beards on the faces of women, it is unnatural and wrong to destroy the natural hair that grows on men's head."

But clearly this is incorrect because facial hair does grow on some women. In another translation of the same article, Bhai Sahib says:

"Women do not have hair on the face. Any human attempt to grow it there would not succeed."

The link to the second article is [www.sikhphilosophy.net]

So I am confused with what Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh has said because it goes against the scientific fact that some women do grow facial hair. What are the implications of what Bhai Sahib has said? Does it mean that removing facial hair on a women is acceptable because it is "unnatural" ?? What about for people who are "unnaturally" hairy??

WJKK WJKF

P.S.
I'd appreciate if sangatji could answer some of the questions I raised in my earlier post... Thanks!

satnam22,

Firstly, women cannot grow a proper beard like men can. Secondly, How would it be right for women to remove facial hair because it will keep on coming back again and again. Why did God put it there, if its gonnna come back again?? Eh maybe because he wants it there, duh.

Finally, you sound like a madman, listening to your mind by continously looking and searching for an excuse to cut hair.

At the end of the day, if a woman removes her facial hair its not going to be for God or her soul, but for humans, and her filthy mind,

VAHEGUROO JI KA KHALSA VAHEGUROO JI KI FATEH!!

i don't understand why people would wish to remove a part of their body, would you cut of you hand as it 'just didn't look right' sounds very strange to me!....society has put expectations of people to look a certain way...but you have to ask your self do you want to be a sheep or do you want to follow your father DHAN GUROO GOBINDH SINGH JI MAHARAJ and become a lion/lioness!! be proud of who you are don't loose your identity trying to become a sheep! GUROO GOBINDH SINGH JI GAVE US THE RUPE OF A SHER AND A SOUL OF A SAINT...WHAT AMAZING KIRPA!!!!

You people are stupid, you see beauty in the sinners who cut their hair but see ugliness in those who follow Guru Ji.

Finally, you sound like a madman, listening to your mind by continously looking and searching for an excuse to cut hair.

Eh maybe because he wants it there, duh

bhai sahib, you should speak with respect..you are contradicting your own statement that 'Sikhs only live to please Guru Ji and God, not our minds'. Your statement obviously seems to be serving ego, and hurtful at the same time to those who are dealing with this situation. The question was posed because they are unsure, and I think the point gets across more succesfully when said with pyar.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa
Waheguru ji ki Fateh

First i'd like to respond to :

>If a amritdhari woman does that she has turned her back on Guru Ji, committed a >sin and broken her amrit; making her no more an amritdhari, no more a SIKH.

i completely disagree- with the last part - the woman is in fact a sikh but one who is transgressing out of insecurity vanity or pride or any number of reasons.
i know this is true because i my self had issues with this for about half the period of time i became sikh prior tp partake Amrit and particularly during early stages. I was always a sikh - doing my best - whether or not i was good enough i was nothing other than sikh. Eventually with time and many trials i came to accpet my true form.

Looking in the mirrior i did not recognize my trues self. It took me several years to get over being traumatized. Funny because now i seldom even think of it. Maybe because i have hardly left my house this past year LOL so i see no surprised faces. I'nm not avoiding just trying to save on gas & shopping money.
But at the time for years and years i simply could not utter a word on the subject. I was so greatful for the tiniest bit of support.

The point is though i may have made mistakes - My guru has always been there supporting me all along the way giving me more strength to see through to the truth and separate it from fiction fed by society media etc.

How fast we are to shame and shun someone undergoing difficulties. If we gave half as much support and psotive reinforcement for steps in the right direction we'd be likely to see those steps increase.(read up on "clicker training")

2nd response to person who mentioned "ape boy" how cruel!
I cannot view the picture but have seen television special on a family who share genetic traits of having face comepletely covered by hair. The family members for the most part embrace their reality even take pride in who they are. One young man could find no work until he went to the barber and got shaved. It was not his first choice - he prefered to remain natural but succumbed to The unfortunate circumstances of poverty. It is a big hardship on him to have his entire face shaved 2-3 times weekly which he does not enjoy nor is he comfortable with his altered appearance which his employer has forced on him or no income.

3rd response anyone who thinks women have no facial hair should take a good look at cosmetics/hair preperations Isle at drug stores. An entire section is devoted to bleaching waxing and other chemical forms of hair removal.

I think bhai sahibs RS point is no one be it man or woman can make their hiar grow or make it stop growing. It's impossible to alter the program no matter how many tricks one gets up to. After about 45 years i finally figured that one out LOL.

Well bottom line ppl is. Those who scorn you are not your friends nor supporters in life... Be yourself and you'll find out who loves and respects you.- You might be surprised by the support you get not only from chardi kalaa singhs and singhi but from outside sikhi. PPl may be curious but respect an honest face.

i attended a ladies excersize gym for about 3 years and got to know a number of women in my community from every walk of life who are kind and gracious. One woman in particular who is herself the closest to standardized beauty perfect figure and face etc. but was the the most insecure of all. She really treated me with appreciation. She even clipped an article and poem and brought with her said it reminded her of me about womans natural beauty. The truth is it's not my appearance but actions, because every time we met i reassured her of her worth as a human being outside of her physical looks.
It's been more than a year now - the gym closed down - but when ever i go out and one of these women spot me they come up especially to greet me.

Of course the best of all is going to smaghams and meeting with my beautiful singhni sisters and gazing upon their lovely faces filled with love of wahguru and with every beautiful hair vibrating with simran.

waheguru ji

If a bibi removes hair on her face, her amrit is broken and she needs to take amrit again, no doubt about this. I can understand how tough it can be for such a bibi. Lots of singhs who speak against this removal of hair, avoid marrying a bibi with facial hair. But 2 wrongs dont make a right and a true daughter of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj Jee will prefer death to cutting or removing her hair. The solution to this problem is only Naam and this Naam has to be japped day night and not just for few hours. THe ultimate goal of every amritdhari shud be to reach 24 hours simran and if a bibi with facial hair japps Naam day and night, she will not only look pretty to Satguru Jee but even dunaivi people will bow to the glow of Naam on her face. In reality only a person who japps Naam is pretty and people who dont have Gurmantar are like dogs and pigs.

that was greaaat harminder singh! Well said! jap more and more NAAM. VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEHGRU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEUGRU VAG+HEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU VAHEGURU...erm, you get the point.

mere pyare veeriyaa "death"
Vaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahee-gurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrruuuuuu.
Its all about Naam, koi parvah nahin kisse de, bass naam te siraf naam.

ONE SINGH TO REMEMBER IS BHAI SAHIB BHAI TAARU SINGH JI!!