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Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: guptseva (IP Logged)
Date: November 24, 2007 12:42PM

WJKK WJKF

Bhai Kulbir Singh Jee, could you please tell us exactly what these radha swamis are and why they follow this gurinder guy?....

Where do they stand in sikhi etc....why do they call them selfs singhs and were kura and some wear dastar and some dont....

what sould we make of these poeple??????

confused....

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: 00Singh (IP Logged)
Date: November 26, 2007 07:33AM

Radhasoami is a religious movement started many years ago by a man named Swami Ji Maharaj in Agra. His teachings were very similar to those within Sri Satguru Granth Sahib Maharaj Ji.

Many people became followers including an ex army officer named Jamal Singh, a kesdhari Sikh who took his teachings and set up a base on next to the River Beas in Punjab. This part of the history is cloudy but Jamal Singh was seen as the Maharaj of this dera and the 'Gurgaddi' was passed from 'Maharaj' to 'Maharaj' and currently lies with Baba Gurinder Singh Ji.

Since Baba Jamal Singh, all the Masters have kept their full kes however it is not a condition of being a follower (however members born to Sikh families are strongly encouraged to keep full kes). They are very strict vegetarians also abstaining from egg and followers are forbidden to partake in alcohol/narcotics consumption. Their current Guru, Maharaj Gurinder Singh Ji also discourages smoking (contrary to beliefs held by non RS that smoking is permitted).

Like Gursikhi, an initiation process is present where followers over the age of 25 are able to become initiated whereby they received their conduct and also the 'Nam', a series of 5 names of God (most of which are found is Sri Satguru Granth Sahib Maharaj Ji) which must be repeated again and again.

They have various establishments across the world and are very popular.

Many members of the Sikh panth are against the RS movement, however it is my personal opinion that although they may not be Sikhs, they are still following a way that brings out good in people and leads them closer to God.

Bhul Chuk Maaf,

Das

PS: I myself follow the house of Sri Satguru Nanak Dev Ji (in case anyone suggests I'm not Sikh)

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: Xylitol (IP Logged)
Date: November 26, 2007 09:09AM

main issue with them in relation to sikhe is that they claim amrit has no spiritual power, but is merely a nice ceremony. they also claim to be descended from the spiritual lineage of Guru Nanak. some of their other claims are also shady, baba kirpal singh wrote in one of his books that one cannot see parkash at the third eye without initiation from a true living master. however, many people see this without any initiation whatsoever.

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: November 26, 2007 09:53AM

Please refer to following links in the archives to find out more about Radhasoamis:

[www.tapoban.org]

[www.tapoban.org]

[www.tapoban.org]

[www.tapoban.org]

Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: 00Singh (IP Logged)
Date: November 26, 2007 10:27AM

No, they don't say Anmrit has no power, also they don't claim to be from a lineage of Sri Satguru Nanak Dev Ji.

You're correct though, many do claim to be Sikh - which in today's meaning of the word, they are not.

When they talk about third eye, they're refering to Dasam Duar - I wasn't aware that they believed that without initiation from a living Master that people can't realise themselves. If they are suggesting that Sri Satguru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is not living then that surely is a gross misunderstanding on their part.

One thing I do know which Sri Satguru Amar Das Ji said in Anand Sahib, "Satgur Bina Kachi Hai Bani, Bani the kachi Satguru Bajoh" - so maybe in this context, their Maharaj is their Satguru and thats what they're refering to.

Key is not to judge faiths by their followers but by the Master, sometimes followers can misinterpret things.

Das.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Gurfateh!

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: Xylitol (IP Logged)
Date: November 27, 2007 03:05PM

actually, they do make all the claims that I've stated above. I read it in a book written by baba Kirpal Singh, a very renowned (in radhasoami circles) radhasoami Guru.

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: kulbir singh (IP Logged)
Date: November 29, 2007 12:20PM

According to Kirpal Singh, one of the gurus of the Beas lineage, their lineage is traced from Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee. They claim that Guru Sahib gave updesh to someone who in turn gave updesh to Tulsi Maharaj. Tulsi then gave updesh to Shiv Dyal the founder of Radhasoamis.

Kirpal Singh claimed that Sawan Singh, the second guru of Beas Lineage gave gaddi to him as opposed to Jagat Singh. He claimed that Sawan Singh called him in his room and transferred the guru power to him through his eyes. The will of Sawan Singh said a totally different story. Officially, Sawan Singh gave his gaddi to Jagat Singh who stayed guru only for 2-3 years and the gaddi got back into the hands of the Grewal family. Sawan Singh was a Grewal form Mahimasinghwala pind near Narangwal and Gujjarwal.

Charan Singh who came after Jagat Singh was a grandson of Sawan Singh and during his times Kirpal Singh and Charan Singh fought a court battle that Kirpal Singh lost. He was required to apologise to Charan Singh in this defamation case.

Charan Singh led a very successful guruship and during his time Radhasoami Beas expanded so much that it was now bigger than all Agra and other Radhasoami branches combined. Kirpal Singh too was very successful in foreign countries.

Charan Singh before dying, gave his gaddi to his nephew - Gurinder Singh who used to cut hair and beard but when he was chosen as a Guru, he kept hair and beard and started wearing a turban. Why would he wear the turban stop cutting hair, when his religion does not require it? The answer is simple. The people of Punjab would never accept him if he did not keep hair and turban. Does this befit a true Guru?

Kulbir Singh

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: kuldeep_kaurs (IP Logged)
Date: March 10, 2008 05:03AM

Radha Swami mat is not against or in favour of any religion. It teaches humanity and kindness towards humanity. One can be a part of this 'mat' while being in any religion. But, in today's scenerio, true sikhism is left soemwhere in past. Some people are trying to be so called 'protectors' of sikhism on their own by attacking other faith and beliefs which is good for nothing.

I would suggest those people to make use of their energy to cure internal demerits which have affected sikhism in past few years rather than making fun and raising questions on other faiths.

All this 'if', 'but', 'why' should be used to recover one's own shortcomings first, after that you can raise finger on others.

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 10, 2008 09:15AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹ

bhain jee kuldeep kaur jee,

before i found sikhee, radha soami mat attracted me greatly - i had had no direct contact with gurbaaNee whatsoever and the gurbaaNee i read via their books was very appealing.

however, they are all guilty of severely twisting the meanings of gurbaaNee. for instance, the most obvious example is when they consistently translate satguroo as 'living master' or 'human master'. how on earth does satguroo refer to any 'living' or 'human'?

sikhs should inform the sangat about their tactics because although i am sure they have many guns, they are taught that siree guroo granth sahib jee is a mere 'book of prescription' similar to ' a doctor's prescription' however, you 'can't get the medicine' until you have a 'living master' who can 'administer ti to you'.

therefore they are guilty of misinformation and leading ill-informed sikhs astray through their lies.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: anom7 (IP Logged)
Date: March 10, 2008 10:03AM

this guy is a pakhandi
he sues the teachings of guru nanak dev je, and try to pass em off on his own
to make it look authentic hell put in some crap about hearing bells
and thunder or w.e
i cud easily go around doing tha, anyone can
people in punjab and around the world have a really bad weakness of thinking these people r special, even when they are cleearly not
fakeness and lies are not accepted in any society, y shud radhaswami be any different
its very simple, hes a fake
kulbir singh has gone thru extesnivley on radhasswamis and if anyone really wants to question them, or find out about them check his posts

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: sidhu.hcl (IP Logged)
Date: March 10, 2008 02:41PM

Radha-Soami stands for (Husband of ur Soul). Their idea is integrity of wife soul with husband god.

(This idea they clearly stolen from sikh ideolody of Atma meeting parm-Atma.)

Secondly Radha Soami'z have several other thing tht u can notice one by one :

1) Naam is given to selected no. of people only at a time That too on the basis of lottery ( like Puda Plots)

2) naam is given in the form of a "sentence or Para" Quoted from sacred Sri GURU Granth Sahib Ji. throught life u have to recite this proper "para" and u cant tell its content to others (otherwise ur validity xpires)

Note-- Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in sikhism is open to every sikh to access it with dignity and u can access to evry part of It

3) nAAM CANT be given to unmarried girl coz she may marry into any such house whre inhabitants may be consuming liquor or flesh, thus naam will be spoiled.

4) Radha soami people use to bow their head in front of deh-dhari guru. Though Guru never told thm to do so (never he resisted)

5) At radha-soami sect u can be benefitted by (CSD facilities) by stuffs by having thm at cheaper thn MDP (maximum discounted price)

6) Diong plantation is good NGO work. (Sikh also support on this term) but by only karm or seva one cant get God. Sri Guru granth Sahib Ji clearly said :

( ghaal na milyo, sev na milyo .... milyo aye aachint ).

Im not against any sect or religion but to my sikh brothers i want to say tht :

Guru Govind singh ji had clearly had given us HUKUM (not suggestion or instruction)
..sab sikhan ko HUKUM hai GURU manyo Granth.
also
.. Poora Guru aaradhya ... poora ja ka nao..
...naanak poora payiyee.. poore ke gun gao..

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: kuldeep_kaurs (IP Logged)
Date: March 10, 2008 10:17PM

I firmly believe that it might not be a teaching of any Sikh Guru to abuse or disrespect any other 'belief'. Who has given this right to these so called promoters of Sikhism who make fun of others ? This kind of act is really shameful. When you don't obey your own Guru's, to whom you would listen ? If you are not satisfied with the maxims of 'Radhaswami', you don't follow it . Nobody will force you for same.

Why don't you guys understand that surely there would be certain shortcomings which has distracted people from sikhism. Rather than wasting your valuable time in leg pulling of others, try to analyse the reasons which have degraded the royality of Sikhism and recover those shortcomings.


If you believe that Sikhism (in today's scenerio) is so pure and powerful then why you guys are scared of vanishing it off ? Answer this question only WHICH SIKH GURU ASKED HIS FOLLOWERS TO ABUSE OTHER BELIEFS FOR THE SAKE OF SIKHISM. The people who are doing it, are not 'Guru ke pyare', And, they are degrading the principles of Sikhism by these cheap acts.

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: Atma Singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 11, 2008 06:17AM

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹ

bhain jee 'kuldeep_kaurs',

if i am one of the poepel who you think is 'disrespecting', 'making fun' of radh soami mat pls tell me how i have done so. when considering this, pls note that it is not nindya to tell the truth about those who lie regarding gurbaaNee and misguide sikhs.

you wrote: "Why don't you guys understand that surely there would be certain shortcomings which has distracted people from sikhism. Rather than wasting your valuable time in leg pulling of others, try to analyse the reasons which have degraded the royality of Sikhism and recover those shortcomings".

i feel there are many. many shortcomings amongst the panth but not within 'sikhee' because sikhee is based upon gurmat which is based upon siree guroo granth sahib jee and related/connected concepts.

the major shortcomings amongst the panth include denial of maharaaj jee's saroop (i.e. installation of pad-ched beeR and rejection of laReevaar saroop), poor leadership, mis-interpretation of gurmat concepts, lack of rehit-based teachings/acceptance, gurduaara committee systems, belief in caste-system etc.

you will note that none of these shortcomings have anything to do with 'sikhee' but rather, are connected to the actions of so-called 'sikhs'. their actions do not detract from the 'royality of Sikhism' to use your expression.

it seems you feel there may be shortcomings within gurmat. please point these out if this is the case and kindly give us the blessed seva of responding.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹਿ

ਦਾਸ,
ਆਤਮਾ ਸਿੰਘ

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: 00Singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 11, 2008 06:36AM

WJKK WJKF!

Agreed with kuldeep_kaurs. It is my opinion that too many Singhs/Singhnis spend far too much time trying to discredit these "sects" and write passionately against them when not knowing the true essence of life.

Most people on this forum probably have never been to a RSSB Satsang or done real research and so base their judgments on hearsay. I'm not saying don't research these things, by all means one should research just as Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji has done, and if asked share opinions based on your research - as Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji did.

Sikhi is about inner experiences, so my opinion is, if you're Sikh or more specifically Amritdhari, then concentrate on your own Naam, Bani, Sangat and Seva. If there are people in the world who wish to follow RSSB or Sacha Sauda etc etc, let them get on with it as you're here to correct yourself, not worry about others.

Sikhi is about quality, not quantity. I personally know people who were drinkers, smokers and consumed meat (please do not start the meat debate) but then turned to RSSB and gave all these things up. In my opinion, the RSSB sangat and their Guru has helped them achieve something good!

Singhs/Singhnis - don't waste your time with hatred of others - just become puran Gurmukhs (Apologies for this hypocritical statement as I'm still a long long way off from this...yet!)

PS: The comment about the bells, I'm pretty certain that Bhai Gurdas in their Vaaran has mentioned the "Thun" - Daas hopes one of the Tapoban Singhs can clarify this.

WJKK WJKF!
Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj!

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: sidhu.hcl (IP Logged)
Date: March 11, 2008 07:52AM

Kuldeep Kaur ji i respect ur sentiments abt Dehdhari Guru of Urs. i have respect for him too in my thoughts.

I stronly disagree with ur thoughts tht sikhs are disappearing. Sikh population tht detoriated during terrorist times is now BOOMING. u can see more no of Turbaned sikhs now-a-days.

The thing tht had chnged is people have become intelligent enough to think, and thus more thy have become more arguing, and this is the only reason ur being bombed by questions against a self proclaimed guru of urs.

Now instead of defending urslf ur blaiming others.

For ur information Kuldep kaur ji many of such (kid type) Babas have come and Gone. sikhism remain uneffected.

Sikhism have utter respect for people who do the reverence of real ultimate one supreme god.like Sant Kabir das ji, Baba Farid ji, bhagat Ravidas ji and many more.

every siant is gifted with "dhur ki bani" they have their own bani . Good siant dont believe in plagrism .

for futher discussions i would greatly acknowledge ur kind reply

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: sidhu.hcl (IP Logged)
Date: March 12, 2008 02:12PM

to my brother 00singh ji :

Guruji clearly said "aap japo aavre naam japaoo". i think here it is very much clear tht we are here not for ourselves only.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji clearly mentions "maddh pite, matt door howe" So, i think thre is nothing special wht SELF-PROCLAIMED guruz are telling people to avoid liquor and others.

I offered my comments to the specific flaws only tht ever use to remain unexplained..

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: 00Singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 13, 2008 04:47AM

Bhai sidhu.hcl. It's very easy to criticize faiths as an outsider. I'm assuming you're Sikh as you were born into it, therefore you followed the path of least social resistance (coupled with the fact that Gurbani is Sach helped too).

Sameway, RSSB followers - many are born into it and so they too will follow their path of least social resistance.

Who are we to pass judgements on whether someone is false or true - only one with the Gunn of Truth can identify such people, Bhai Sahib if you are one of these people then I offer you my sincere and humble apologies.

I feel one shouldn't waste time and resource trying to debunk other faiths/sects etc. My point is, ultimately we're here to achieve reunion with Akaal Purakh - that's an individual task - not waste valuable time and resource insulting people like the RSSB Guru who in my opinion is still preaching goodness.

My view is, if people say he is false and 'self proclaimed' that's not my problem. My thoughts are with Dhan Dhan Sri Granth Sahib Maharaj, and as a good Sikh, I will respect RSSB and their followers. I feel only in the face of injustice should Singhs stand up, for example 1984, Mughal Raaj etc.

People only turn to others if their current offerings aren't sufficient. Look at how Gurdwara Sahibs are run today. Many have price tags on different paaths e.g. 500 dollars for an Akhand Paath, 100 dollars for Sukhmani Sahib - when people see this they can become disillusioned. Sikhi needs to get stronger by resolving the weak links within, not look outside and blame others.

WJKK WJKF

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: Khalsaspirit (IP Logged)
Date: March 13, 2008 10:36AM

Waheguru ji ka kahlsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Khalsa jio,

This particular sect was long debated in the panth. One time even it was discussed to choose some ALTERNATIVE route for this sect but then with the advise of some GurSikhs that route was not implemented. Anyway, we agree with Bhai Kulbir Singh jee's research and analysis. At the same time we would like to stick with what ਜਗਤ Guru Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Sahib jee says about these kind of sects who claim their Dehdhari man is Guru or Satguru:

*****************************************
ਗੁਰੂ ਜਿਨਾ ਕਾ ਅੰਧੁਲਾ ਸਿਖ ਭੀ ਅੰਧੇ ਕਰਮ ਕਰੇਨਿ ॥
ਓਇ ਭਾਣੈ ਚਲਨਿ ਆਪਣੈ ਨਿਤ ਝੂਠੋ ਝੂਠੁ ਬੋਲੇਨਿ ॥
ਕੂੜੁ ਕੁਸਤੁ ਕਮਾਵਦੇ ਪਰ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਕਰੇਨਿ ॥
ਓਇ ਆਪਿ ਡੁਬੇ ਪਰ ਨਿੰਦਕਾ ਸਗਲੇ ਕੁਲ ਡੋਬੇਨਿ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਤੁ ਓਇ ਲਾਏ ਤਿਤੁ ਲਗੇ ਉਇ ਬਪੁੜੇ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੇਨਿ ॥੨॥ Panna 951

The disciples, whose spiritual preceptor is blind, too, do the blind deeds.
They walk in their own will (ਮਨਮਤ) and ever utter the grossest falsehood.
They practise falsehood and deception and ever slander others.
Those great slanderers are them-selves drowned and they ruin all their families.
To whatsoever the Lord yokes them, to that they remain yoked. What can those poor(wretched) creatures do?
*****************************************

see the last tuk ਕਿਆ ਖੂਬ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਨਿਬੇੜਾ ਕੀਤਾ:

ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਤੁ ਓਇ ਲਾਏ ਤਿਤੁ ਲਗੇ ਉਇ ਬਪੁੜੇ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੇਨਿ ॥੨॥.
To whatsoever the Lord yokes them, to that they remain yoked. What can those poor (wretched) creatures do?

So let them strike their heads to rock and if they feel they can get GOD by doing so then no one can save them from drowing except GOD himself.

Guru Mehar Karay

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: sidhu.hcl (IP Logged)
Date: March 13, 2008 01:56PM

"Look at how Gurdwara Sahibs are run today. Many have price tags on different paaths e.g. 500 dollars for an Akhand Paath, 100 dollars for Sukhmani Sahib - when people see this they can become disillusioned. Sikhi needs to get stronger by resolving the weak links within, not look outside and blame others. "

I think taking money for aakhand path or sukhmani Sahib isnt bad. A bababji who is diong aakhand path is spending his time at ur place and also he is making u to listen Gurbani i think the charge BABAJI is taking much much lesser.

Everyone has to earn a livelihood if one is earning by making people to listen gurbani thre is nothing tht can be compared. Moreover Babaji is the person who has devouted his life for the god and religion.

I know why people blame our own system coz whn Babaji is charging 500$ for aakhand path we think how easy he is earning and becoz of this jealousness we start going against thm. I think the babaji is the person we should respect the most after Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
This is the only reason Guruji asked sikhs to take DASAND (duswa hissa) out of ur salaries for the betterment of religion.

I respect a Babaji more thn any SELF PROCLAIMED GOD.

These RSSB people are making easy money thru many channels, they own Helicopters, Private Jets,LAkhs of acres of farm land and industries. whts bad whn a BABAJI is earning and making us to listen SACRED GURBANI.

I think rather thn BLAIMING our own system we should first understd it and thn strengthen our own links with the system so tht we cant get ourslf disillusioned.
I THINK THE KHALSASPIRIT HAS TAKEN EXCELLENT QUOTE TO GET EVERYONE UNDRSTD.

I agree with this Guruji had also said :

"Tum Ko tumara Khoob... HuMko HUmara KHoob"

also "Moorkhe naal na loogiyee, na loogiyee, na loogiyee" 3 times Guruji repeated the same.(dont get urslf entangled with moorkh)

 



Re: Radha swami..???? what are they.. Sikh?
Posted by: Harinder Singh (IP Logged)
Date: March 14, 2008 05:18AM

Its true that there are many people who claim themselves to be sikhs but dont follow the faith, then there are amritdharis who are laalchi,greedy, selfish,slander other faiths, use Guru-ghar for money, immigration and such people have done badnami of Khalsa Dharma.
But what radhaswamis do is that they tell exactly the same things that I have written above.After this they do lots of praise of Guru-Sahibaan. Sikhs who dont have much jeevan or who dont follow tatt-gurmatt feel that radha-soamis are honest people who love Guru Ghar but dont like the corruption in sikh-institutions. Then these radha-soamis initiate such sikhs into their faith, they keep on praising Guru-sahib at their smagams but at the same time, they keep on ALTERING THE MEANINGS OF GURBANI(thats the key to understand, most sikhs dont understand this).Slowly slowly, these radha-soamis convince sikhs that though 10 Guru-Sahibaan were great but since they are no more in body, now they need some one living, someone living who can make them understand Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Maharaaj Jee. Many sikhs get convinced at this and join the radha-soami sect and by doing this the OBJECTIVE IS ACHIEVED.(SOMEHOW BREAK THESE SIKHS FROM DASHMESH PITA JEE'S AMRIT).
INN SIKHON KO KISSI BHI TARRAN KHANDE BAATE KE AMRIT SE TORR DOO, TABHEE INKO HARAYAA JA SAKTAA HAI, hahahahahahaha.
But people dont know the power of Dashmesh Pita Jee's Amrit.
Radha soaamis twist the meanings of My Guru Sahib, THATS THE BIGGEST SIN ON THIS PLANET. Ram rai did this and was thrown out.
whenever khalsa shall rise, khalsa shud take justice from all the sects(ashutosh, sacha sauda etc..) including radha-soamis for attacking the Guru of the Khalsa.
RAJ KAREGA KHALSA
DEG TEG FATEH
PANTH KE JEET
SOORA SO PAHCHANIYAANIYE JO LARREE DEEN(gurmat naam/gurbani) KE HET,
PURRJA PURRJA KATT MARRE KABHU NA CHADDAI KHETTT.

 
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